after the Greeks ...

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katy
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby katy » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:12 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/27/greece-spain-helped-germany-recover
In 1953 Greece agreed to forgive German debt. Not so long ago is it. Deutchesland has short memories.

markwilding
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby markwilding » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:31 pm

Lavanda wrote:
What world do you live in where you are able to compare old The Soviet Union with the EU?


Mark, I wasn't making the comparison. The Russian historian/economist was. Read what I wrote. :roll:

So why write it then? I tend to comment on opinions that back up my one

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby Lavanda » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:01 pm

Nice one, ChrisM. :thumbup: I hadn't heard that before.

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby Lavanda » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:25 am

I realise that reporting on what is happening in Greece is hardly accurate but I think a few things have been flagged up that might be useful for us, here in Spain, should we get Podemos in November.

1. Do not put all your money into just one bank. Spread it around a bit. A limit of €60 per account per day might be less stressful if you have more than one account. :thumbup:

2. Have a store cupboard with enough food to last longer than just five days. Aim for a month of stuff, even if it's just rice, pasta and beans everyday at least you won't be starving. :shock:

3. Same with medication. Try not to let your prescriptions to run out completely. Especially if the medicine is pretty much vital. :crazy:

4. Try not to be over-reliant on electricity that you do not generate yourself. Get a wood burning stove and a stock of wood. Or extra jumpers and blankets. Could be by January 2016 you'll need them. :D

ChrisM
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby ChrisM » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:54 pm

Spot on. In my time in the western USA, I knew plenty of people who lived away from the cities, and self-reliance was the byword. Useful lessons for those of us in 'civilisation' when things go wobbly.

In England, two inches of snow causes a spate of panic buying in the supermarkets as well as a breakdown in the transport system. God alone knows what we would do with a Greek-style collapse. Things have changed here...
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby anyroads » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:57 pm

I think what is happening in Greece ( and will continue to happen ) has put the final nail in the coffin of Podemos !

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:25 pm

Let's hope so.

ChrisM
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby ChrisM » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:17 pm

It's a 'wake up and smell the coffee' event. So much of global economics is complex and frankly, confusing to even those I know in financial services. Greece puts a spotlight on the simple fact of 'debt needs repaying. If you can't make the repayments, don't take out the debt.' - a simple fact us mere drones know all too well. The 'elite' reckoned up to now they could evade such a reality.
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby Mowser » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:50 pm

Early polls showing a solid NO vote. If this is the final outcome, will it help Podemos or hinder it?
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ChrisM
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby ChrisM » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:48 pm

If so, we're now into the realms of reality, and it will all hinge on the repercussions, as versus all the two-sided propaganda. As Churchill said, "The first casualty of war is the truth." This is a culture war of the first magnitude - at least in recent decades.
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby Lavanda » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:18 pm

I think much will now depend on the statecraft of the EU leaders. If they drag their heels in coming back to negotiate or do not put debt relief on the table there may be even more hatred and distrust of the EU, not only in Greece but across member states. So much has come out over the last week about the undemocratic nature of the EU - and the leaked report from the IMF indicating that Greek debt was 'unsustainable' was simply dynamite. Varoufakis is the world expert on 'Game Theory' (and I had to look up what that was) but, so far, the Greeks are playing a good game. It's up to the EU to rise to the occasion and show some class. (Fat chance, in my opinion). It's riviting stuff, though. Really important stuff, I think. Will Democracy prevail or will the EU ignore the will of the Greek people?

ChrisM
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby ChrisM » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:49 pm

Spot on in every respect.
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costakid
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby costakid » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:45 pm

A dangerous game of chess is being played.

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby wollie » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:36 pm

Thankfully in my opinion has come home and a great result for the impoverished countries of Europe.
We will now hopefully see a way where the eu will work for all or not at all.
With the Spanish election around the corner another socialist government in spain would be a big problem for angela.
I seen a comment on c4 that all the other European were afraid of the possibility of left movement being credited with political change.
It will be interesting to see what falls out of it all but at least it will let the other countries and us examine where we are with all of this as there needs to be a bit of fairness in all of this.
I say let the imf and eu bank take a big hit not just for Greece but for spain and the others and we all move forward together.

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby anyroads » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:56 pm

I think Greece should now be left to celebrate their "victory" for a week or two until reality kicks in..


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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby olive » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:41 pm

OXI

Merkel on her way now to confer with Hollande.

Someone will have to pay. About 200 for every person? As the banks won,t take the actual hit. Then there is another 50billion to tide them over before proper financing.

What a stroke of luck that Russia hasn't got the money. The West fell right there.

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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby WoodlandHills » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:04 am

IMHO, it is the Greeks misfortune that Russia is broke. If not, the threat of cutting a better deal with Putin would bring the Germans to their senses and things would never have gotten this far. The Greeks are going to be made to pay for: 1. Having less than perfect leadership over the past few decades and 2. Defying the EU Elites. The last thing that the EU wants is for there to be a smooth Greek exit from either the Eurozone or the EU itself. There must be great pain for many years as a warning to the others. Look for punitive trade and travel policies towards Greece in the years to come: the drachma must not be a success.......

Lavanda
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby Lavanda » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:11 am

It's not yet clear that Greece will leave the Euro ... in fact, not much is clear ... yet. It's interesting that Angela and Hollande are meeting today. Hollande is keen to keep negotiating with Greece (left-wing governments together) but the reminder that Germany was let off most of it's post WWII debt at some point in order to 'grow' might give Germany a second thought about their dubious role in what is happening in the EU's poorer countries right now.

I'll pay my €200, Olive. I'm no Socialist (as you all know) but the poorer and struggling countries of the EU must get some austerity and debt relief soon. The EU zone has only about 1% growth year-on-year. That's hardly an economic miricle. Next up will be Italy and although Spain is turning around its ecomony it still has huge youth unemployment. Podemos might look very attractive in November.

I'm really, really, pleased the Greeks voted against the EU proposals. Governments MUST learn that they serve the people and not the other way around. Banks MUST learn to be reonsible lenders and accept risks if they lend to countries and people already hopelessly in debt. The Greeks MUST learn something about basic economy and living within their means - but that could apply to all the countries of Europe and the USA, as well. Lovely comment, Wollie, in my opinion. :thumbup: ChrisM.

katy
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby katy » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:20 am

Brussels appear to still be calling the shots in Greece. The Greek banks closed on EU instructions and now the Finance Minister has resigned because the Troika don't like dealing with him! I still think there will be a deal. Perhaps all those Countries who receive more from the EU than they pay in could have a whip round for Greece, you know, all those that received billions for vanity Airports etc. :wink:

ChrisM
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Re: after the Greeks ...

Postby ChrisM » Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:17 pm

katy wrote:Brussels appear to still be calling the shots in Greece. The Greek banks closed on EU instructions and now the Finance Minister has resigned because the Troika don't like dealing with him! I still think there will be a deal.


Per the FT: Tsipras pushed Varoufakis (according to Syriza insiders) as an olive branch to EU, as he is 'convinced of a deal within two days'. Merkel's official spokesman - Steffen Seibert @ 12:04 - says there is no basis for negotiations over a new aid programme (interesting choice of words, aid programme - not loans), but the door for talks was "always open".

I had reckoned Syriza were bluffing, but it seems they were being genuinely consistent all along. It may be that Merkel is also being genuinely consistent in her refusal to table a new deal. When Seibert says the door is always open for talks, the Greeks can't assume he's referring to an aid package.
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