The rain in Spain

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Lavanda
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby Lavanda » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:10 pm

The problem with unsustainable agriculture is that it is unsustainable — strangely. In my area there is a push for people to plant fig trees. There are huge subsidies available. Every spare bit of land is being planted with fig trees and there's an industry here for dried and chocolate figs with factories and co-operativas all involved with these fig activities. That means employment. However, fig trees need a certain amount of irrigation. There are new wells being sunk all over the place. Some of these wells went dry by the end of last summer. The water table is falling. I'm no agriculturalist but, presumably the water that irrigates the trees goes back into the land and into the water table but some of the water must stay in the fig to swell them and make them nice and succulent. I don't know how it works but there is a lot of muttering going on about all the new fig trees being planted and 'where will the water come from'?

Pamela1
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby Pamela1 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:00 pm

Lavanda, i didnt know there was so.much call for fig trees or mango trees as some have said are being planted everywhere..Our area is mainly Olives, Almonds,Peaches and grapes aswell as general plantation...Its interesting to read about the different areas of Adalucia..

Stevemul
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby Stevemul » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:36 pm

Lavanda wrote:I'm no agriculturalist but, presumably the water that irrigates the trees goes back into the land and into the water table but some of the water must stay in the fig to swell them and make them nice and succulent.

I can't help it! I used to be a Biology teacher!

Photosynthesis is the process whereby plants using light energy from the sun convert carbon dioxide and water to glucose sugar and oxygen gas through a series of reactions. The overall equation for photosynthesis is

carbon dioxide + water =light energy=> glucose + oxygen

6CO2 + 6H2O =light energy=> C6H12O6 + 6O2

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GerryinCajiz
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby GerryinCajiz » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:21 pm

My own figs have never been irrigated in the last 15 years other than that which nature sends and I am rewarded by huge fig crops.

Just my luck for tempting fate that this year they will fail :problem:
Gerry

Lavanda
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby Lavanda » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:35 pm

Thanks Stevemul. So water is in there somewhere which I did know. Even people are made up of lots of water. I failed Biology. We had to trace a red blood cell from the kidneys to somewhere else and I went for the four times around the body branching off at the fingers and toes route.

There are lots of trees here, such as almonds, which are 'wild' and are never irrigated yet produce fruit (nuts). The older fig trees, and we have one, are established and do not get watered other than by the rain, when it rains. However, the young trees do get watered. Don't ask me why, but they do.

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Flexo
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby Flexo » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:25 pm

Only a fraction of the water the plant uses is consumed in photosynthesis, plenty evaporates to keep the plant cool or from the soil due to solar heat. But the idea is correct: when you do intensive plant cultivation plenty of water percolates down into the subterranean aquifers.

The problem is that Spain is behind the agricultural revolution in regards to water conservation. Israel uses 100% of the irrigation water from reclaimed water or gray water, including in residential homes (you have two pipes to each house). Spain should have implemented this system decades ago, at least in the drier areas.

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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby Stevemul » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:02 pm

You are correct Flexo that water also evaporates from plants through the stomata which are pores.These pores are mostly on the underside of leaves however to prevent excessive evaporation. The process is called Transpiration.
I referred to Photosynthesis in terms of water use by the fig plant in Lavanda's post because he referred to the swelling of the fig. This is, of course, because of the sugar production and storage which uses water to produce C6H12O6 ie 6x H2O

Lavanda
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby Lavanda » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:56 am

Flexo, we have a grey water system on our finca and it's surprising how much water we collect and recycle. I do agree that everyone should do it and be more mindful of how and when we turn the taps on and why.

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Wicksey
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby Wicksey » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:54 am

country boy wrote:
Wicksey wrote:... is there a grant to plant these trees as it must cost a fortune to set up!)
We've often wondered that.

A few years ago they planted "Chocolate" Trees (Carob) all over the mountain sides around us, thousands and thousands of them.....they are all dead now. What did that cost?
Another neighbour hires labour to plant thousands of veg then leaves it in the ground until it rots. One time he had a huge field of beautiful looking cauliflowers, but then ploughed the whole lot back in. Occasionally he does harvest the crop and they are taken away, but more often than not it is left there to rot and get ploughed back in. We often wonder if it's in order to claim a grant, but then the process of preparation, planting and watering, plus the immigrant labour he uses to work there must cost something too.

Although we've had a nice week or so of rain it hasn't gone that far to replenish the Viñuela reservoir. On 26 Feb it was only 21% full with 35hm3, and yesterday it had 49hm3 which is only just under a third full. It seems in the north they have to let out water and it's a shame it can't be piped down south, which was an idea in the past I thought.

Pamela1
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby Pamela1 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:39 am

There is a field near our property where all the cauliflowers were left to rot, i thought maybe it was because there wasnt alot of demand for them which affected the market price...however i dont know anything about grants for growing veggies etc but maybe somone else on the forum mite know.

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Wicksey
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby Wicksey » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:48 pm

That's interesting to know Pamela. Maybe you're right, that the price was too low to pay out yet more for them to be harvested and transported. Still seems a funny way to farm though!

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Wicksey
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby Wicksey » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:58 pm

Lavanda wrote:Flexo, we have a grey water system on our finca and it's surprising how much water we collect and recycle. I do agree that everyone should do it and be more mindful of how and when we turn the taps on and why.
Our first house didn't have any water supply and we collected every drop off the roof and had it pumped up into our deposito. We needed a couple of tanker loads in the summer but otherwise lived on the rain water collected. Back in those days, though, we did have far wetter winters and we wouldn't have survived in the drought we've had in the past few years. We recycled all the water we could and had quite a lush garden plus a small splash pool too.

I hate to see all the water from this rain running down the road and into the river, and going to waste from our own gutters. I feel we should be diverting it into a storage tank like we used to.

Pamela1
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby Pamela1 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:42 pm

Wicksey...wot a brilliant post..i loved reading it.. :thumbup:

katy
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby katy » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:57 pm

There are lots of EU agricultural subsidies for Spain and many fiddles too. Have a read if at a loose end.

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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby Gasman » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:00 pm

We collect rain water via gutters we installed across the front of the house, into the big paint tubs and store them in the shade for use watering the ornamental garden - you need to have lids on or they become a lovely home for mossie larvae!! With lids on they keep clear for ages. Because of the odd shape of the roof we have 3 collection points - just get a bit damp swapping the full tubs for empty ones between the worst of the rain showers. The orchard has a separate watering system.

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firsttango
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby firsttango » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:44 pm

Blimey what a difference a year makes......this time last year it was Sunny and 30 degrees in Velez Malaga.........but hopefully the much needed rain is replenishing Vinuela etc, but really looking forward to some sun and warmer weather now as it feels this current spell has been going on forever and more to come

gavilan
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby gavilan » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:24 pm

on Feb 28 GerryinCajiz commented upon 60% water restriction ... so, after all this rain, has that restriction been lifted or modified?

Free at Last
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby Free at Last » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:39 pm

The latest announcement from the Junta de Andalucia said that they would re-assess the situation once the current rainy spell has ended, with the intention of reducing the restrictions.

http://www.diariosur.es/axarquia/junta- ... -ntvo.html

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GerryinCajiz
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby GerryinCajiz » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:00 pm

gavilan wrote:on Feb 28 GerryinCajiz commented upon 60% water restriction ... so, after all this rain, has that restriction been lifted or modified?
Last article I read on this, they will review it in the near future.
Gerry

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costakid
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Re: The rain in Spain

Postby costakid » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:57 am

Well apparently we have enough water east of Malaga for this year with no restrictions. Vinuela still looks half empty.


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