Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

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nevillewillmott
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Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby nevillewillmott » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:04 pm

Hi

Does anyone have experience of the above?

I recently bought a dishwasher from Tien21. They gave me a delivery date that extended for one calendar week but did not keep it. I had to return to the UK and so was not present when the goods arrived. This lead to complications. Briefly, I want to return the goods (which I have indicated to Tien21 within 14 days) but Tien21 say it must be in the original packaging. Because I was not present when the goods were delivered, the delivery company unpacked the dishwasher and threw away the packaging

I contend that if I had been present when the goods were delivered, I would have kept the packaging in case the goods were not suitable. However, because Tien21 did not deliver when they said they would, I could not be present

I have heard of the Instituto Nacional del Consumo in Madrid, but is there anything of this type in Andalucia (Province of Granada)?

Dandole anticipadas gracias

Neville Willmott

wollie
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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby wollie » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:38 pm

I am assuming you paid with credit card.
If this is the case i would contact them in the first instance.
They will be the best people to advise....

katy
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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby katy » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:46 pm

They are in every province. First ask the retailer for the complaints book.
http://www.consumoresponde.es/conócenos ... ncial_de_2

maureenscot
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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby maureenscot » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:21 pm

There is also an EU version of small claims court

nevillewillmott
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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby nevillewillmott » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:55 pm

Hi

Thanks for reply

Do you have details of how to contact this organisation in Spain/Andalucia?

Basically, I, as a consumer, have a dispute with a retailer that requires an independent arbitrator. In Spain, I guess this would be a Junta Arbitral de Consumo/ Servicio de arbitraje. Do you know if the Small Claims Court you describe offers this service?

Gracias de antemano

Neville Willmott

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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby nevillewillmott » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:02 pm

wollie wrote:I am assuming you paid with credit card.
If this is the case i would contact them in the first instance.
They will be the best people to advise....
Hi

Thanks for reply

Paid by debit card so cannot go that route

As a consumer I have a dispute with a retailer. What I need is an arbitration service. Do you know of such a body that operates in the Province of Granada?

Gracias de antemano

Neville Willmott

nevillewillmott
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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby nevillewillmott » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:21 pm

katy wrote:They are in every province. First ask the retailer for the complaints book.
http://www.consumoresponde.es/conócenos ... ncial_de_2
Hi

Thanks for reply

You mention a 'Complaints Book'. Could you explain what this is please? Is it a first step in an arbitration procedure?

Consumo Responde looks interesting


Gracias de antemano

Neville Willmott

katy
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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby katy » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:46 am

Not really a complaints book (used to be) it is called the hoja de reclamaciones. Every business has to have one by law, just ask for the hoja. When I filled one out in Marbella it was in English too. This is the first step to an official complaint. The hoja has three copies, one for the business, one for the consumer dept. and your copy. Take or send the one for the consumer dept. And they take it up with the company and they have to respond within around 15 days. Best to take it as you will then be given advice by an Adviser. My complaint was against a garage and was successful but they were very nasty with me when I took the car back.

This maybe your nearest office

https://www.granada.org/inet/wpim.nsf/x ... 87002EB6DF

If you scroll down the page you can choose English.

nevillewillmott
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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby nevillewillmott » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:16 pm

Hi


This could be very useful information. Thanks. I will take this up with Tien21


Muchisimas gracias

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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:09 pm

There is another sneaky route you can try.

In Spain if goods are less than 6 months old and they are 'faulty' then the retailer has to prove that they are not faulty. In other words the burden of proof falls on the retailer. It might be more time than it is worth for Tien 21 to try to prove there is no fault. Then you are entitled to a refund.

Faults are a very subjective matter sometimes,

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/c ... dex_en.htm

However I would only go that route if the complaints book solution did not work, just keep in mind the time frames for the 'faults' procedure.

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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby nevillewillmott » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:17 am

Hi

Tx for reply

The basic dispute is not that the goods are faulty, but that they were delivered outside the time frame that Tien21 promised. So, I was not present when the goods were delivered as I had to return to UK. Because I could not be present when the goods were delivered I could not assess directly if they were suitable. With the help of a neighbour, we discovered that the goods were not in fact suitable (which I indicated to Tien21 within 14 days). By then, the delivery company had thrown away the packaging. Tien21 maintains that it is my responsibility to repack the goods in order to return them. I maintain that it is their responsibility because they delivered the goods after they said they would

Hay remedio?

Paddy Pumpkin
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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:55 am

Faults in consumer law also mean that the goods are fit for purpose

As I said above faults are subjective as the definition of fit for purpose can be vague.

The onus is on the seller in the first six months to prove that the goods were fit for purpose.

In your case the purpose was to use by a certain date...they didn't deliver before that date

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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby wollie » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:40 am

On reading this again i am thinking that the principle fault here lies between the delivery company company and Tien.
You bought goods from Tien but it was the delivery company who failed to deliver the said packaging that is part of the
contract you entered with Tien.
I think it may be worth while asking Tien for copy of agreement they have entered with courior regarding delivery of goods.
The key here seems to be who decided to remove packaging as it is the norm to access warranty for the said item.
I think if this is normal practice by Tien they are likely breaking consumer protection rules regarding warrranty.
It Tien are doing this nationwide i think they will give you a refund as this is breaking their own basic rules.
Do you have any access to "terms and conditions" of said delivery regarding packaging/delivery?
Just go online as if you were buying today look at your item and check "terms and conditions" regarding delivery
Unfortunately you have no contract with delivery company but try to get information regarding delivery arrangement.
I expect you will win this one, send email to Tien 21 head office outlining what happened.


HAVE A LOOK AT BELOW
It is very important that at the time of receipt of the order, the Client examine each of the packages in case they have suffered any external damage that is clearly visible during transport. In this case you must reject the product noting the cause on the carrier's delivery note or in the collection document that must be printed at the store for collection and communicate it to Tien21 as soon as possible from the delivery or collection attempt.

In case of collection in store, before removing the product should check its correct condition (break or blow), so you must open and examine the product in the establishment. Tien21 is not responsible for the blows or breaks that the order may have once it has been removed from the store.

Orders with store pick-up must be removed within a maximum period of 7 days from the moment you receive the email informing you that you can now pick up your order.

Outside of this period Tien21 is not responsible for the damages that occurred in the shipment.

The order must be prepared for its return in its original packaging within a maximum period of 24 hours from the moment of the notification of the damage at the place of delivery selected by the customer at the time of placing the order.

In any case, notifications will be made by one of the means indicated in the section "CONSULTATIONS, SUGGESTIONS, COMPLAINTS AND CLAIMS".

Right of withdrawal

The client will have the right to withdraw from the Contract, without needing to justify his decision, within a maximum period of 14 calendar days from the moment he receives his order. To exercise your right of withdrawal, you must contact SINERSIS E-COMMERCE, S.L.U. to indicate your decision to withdraw from the contract. You can do so by contacting the customer service department via email [email protected]. To make the withdrawal effective, it is essential that you fill in the following form and send it to us by email to [email protected] or by postal mail at the following address:

SINERSIS E-COMMERCE, S.L.U.
Bravo Murillo 377, 4ºA
28020 Madrid - Spain

You must also accompany the form of 3 photographs to check the status of the returned product if the packaging has been opened.

Image 1: Unpacked product

Image 2: Product inside the box

Image 3: Closed box with the product inside

If it has not been opened, then we only need a photograph to check the condition of the packaging.

nevillewillmott
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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby nevillewillmott » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:30 pm

Hi

Thanks for reply

Tien21 have offered a refund. The point of dispute is, who should be responsible for repacking the goods for return. Because the goods were delivered later than Tien21 promised, I was not present when they were delivered; nevertheless, the delivery company unpacked the goods and threw away the original packaging. Therefore, I maintain it should be the responsibility of Tien21


As you point out, there is a procedure (including taking photographs and repacking the goods) for returns. However, at the moment I am not in Spain and do not plan to return until March. Even if I felt I should be responsible for photographing and repackaging the goods - which I do not, I am in no position to do so

Because the goods were delivered late and the delivery company unilaterally decided to throw away the original packaging, I have put it to Tien21 that they should be responsible for repackaging the goods for return. They do not accept this. Hence, I think some form of arbitration is needed

markwilding
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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby markwilding » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:36 pm

You need to speak to the consumer office. As already posted, the onus is on the seller to prove your claim to be wrong within the first six months. I have used the local consumer office more than once with success.

I would also try bypassing customer services and write directly to the owner or chief executive or the company. Google the information you need. This has also worked for us. On one occasion my ISP's customer service told me my claim had failed when in fact, I had already received an apology and a refund.


It might be worthwhile to check your rights with the main consumer office in Madrid which has corresponded with me in English. They should also advise you on how to proceed. Remember to list all calls and document all correspondence.

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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby nevillewillmott » Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:05 pm

Hi

Tx for sharing your experience and interesting suggestions

On reading the Condiciones Generales de Conratacion for Tien21, there is a passage that says Tien21 bear no responsibility for late delivery by their contractors. Can they really shuffle of responsibility like that? Anyway, I am determined to be a nuisance at the very least


I contacted the consumer affairs department of the Junta de Andalucia and they put me in touch with ConsumoResponde (that was mentioned by a poster on this thread as being useful). I am preparing a Solicitud de Arbitraje (which can be done via the Internet using my electronic signature) but it is in Spanish so is taking time. Interesting days


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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby El Cid » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:44 pm

How did they manage to deliver and unpack if you were not there?

Sid

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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby nevillewillmott » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:24 pm

Neighbour has a key

El Cid
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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby El Cid » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:44 pm

So did he not supervise the delivery and why did he not get them to leave the packaging?

If you had not arranged for him to do that, then I guess that this mess is down to you.

Sid

nevillewillmott
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Re: Cosumer protection/dispute reolution

Postby nevillewillmott » Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:53 am

Hi

Appreciate your thoughts but do not see things that way

The 'mess' was caused by the delivery delay of 7 days. Because of the delay I could not assess there and then the suitability of the goods and exercise my right of return. My neighbour was not in a position to do so

As I said, Tien21 disclaim responsibility for any delays in delivery. Let's see what an arbitration panal makes of it


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