Depopulation in Rural Spain

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olive
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Depopulation in Rural Spain

Postby olive » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:16 am

Has anyone been following this non political protest. Been on TV and in the papers. For example El Pais (in English).

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/04/01/in ... 70580.html

It is a subject close to my heart as an advocate of rural living. Our small village used to have youngsters. Their families have either moved to the town where it is easier to get to school, where they have decent speed internet and so on OR they have moved at working age to get work. One works in Armenia much to his mothers chagrin as she never sees him.

I have been to Teruel and very recently to Soria areas. Both are lovely and wild with truly vast distances between villages and hamlets.

I don't know what the answer is as we all need food. Maybe the apparent unwritten Spanish "law" to discourage rural living by making planning permission for rural dwellings difficult needs to be reversed. I went with a Spanish friend to the town hall where he wanted to build a modest shed to house his caterpillar tractor and olive spraying rig plus a few tools. It was flatly refused as he didn't have sufficient land in one block. When he pointed out that collectively his holding of parcels in the area exceeded that figure it was still a no. He keeps his caterpillar under a tarpaulin in one of his groves. Ironically he lives forty minutes away in the major town because it has all the facilities!


What do you think about rural depopulation?

Beachcomber
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Re: Depopulation in Rural Spain

Postby Beachcomber » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:15 pm

The Spanish authorities want everyone to live in high rise rabbit hutches on the outskirts of cities. That way they have more control over the masses and that's why virtually all official forms have the facility only to enter numero, bloque, portal, escalara, planta, puerta etc. in the address area. If you dare to contravene that rule and live in the countryside it is virtually impossible to enter a rural address properly.

BENIDORM
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Re: Depopulation in Rural Spain

Postby BENIDORM » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:51 pm

An interesting subject Olive.

Rural living has been on the decline in Spain and many other countries including UK for many years, I don't think that it's a plot by Governments , just purely that most people want more in their lives and choose to live in more populated areas where they can have easier access to work, education, health options and entertainment.
I personally love visiting the countryside but only as a visitor and I've observed so many expats who realise that they've made a mistake isolating themselves from amenities etc.
I know where you live Olive and can understand why you like it, however I think that the decline will increase , the small villages are really finding it difficult to maintain services such as schools etc.
I also note how many forum members live in the campo and seem to spend alot of time chatting on forums/social media, so at least the increased range and access to social media must be very welcome., and will help alleviate boredom.
We actually gave much thought to choosing our home in Spain and we are very happy that we have a good balance by partly living in the countryside , but having all amenities within walking distance and a major city less than 10 minutes away.

Yesterday we visited numerous villages in and near Jerez del Marquesado, near Guadix and the foothills of the Sierra Nevadas, the villages are in steep decline, however they appear to be really trying to encourage tourism and with the high amount of historic buildings and general history they have a good chance, but in my opinion also need to look more into creating light industry which would encourage young people to stay in the area.

My above obsevations and comments are purely as I see the situation, I have no intention of trying to upset 'campo dwellers', quite the opposite.
Regards,
Gordon

Manchesteral
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Re: Depopulation in Rural Spain

Postby Manchesteral » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:01 pm

I can't remember where or when I read it, bit it was recently apparently there is a community in the La Mancha area where the local council is offering an entire village for sale (a hamlet) of some 15 or so dwellings for €100.00 per unit provided you buy them all and renovate them within 3 years, others may not agree with me but I would view this as a fine entrepreneurial opportunity !

Pamela1
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Re: Depopulation in Rural Spain

Postby Pamela1 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:50 pm

So would i AL especially if it was in the Uk where country property commands a fair sum...however they say that people are moving out of villages and don't want rural or campo life so who knows!... Perhaps when they get tired of living in a high rise and can't let their children out or drugs and stabbings starts to take over they might start rushing back..then i'd say that little hamlet might be worth a fortune.

Lavanda
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Re: Depopulation in Rural Spain

Postby Lavanda » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:58 am

and will help alleviate boredom.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Love it, Beni. Oh for the chance to be bored in the countryside. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have been following the story but long before it became 'popular' it's been of concern in Extremadura. We are a place the size of Switzerland with fewer than a million inhabitants and the numbers are falling every year. There are areas such as the Sierra de Gata where whole villages are in danger of becoming abandoned but it's a chicken and egg problem as far as rural transport is concerned. When I first started to visit the area , over 10 years ago, the bus service was comprehensive. Now there are a few buses every other day or just twice a week. The local shops play an important role in village life and so do the weekly markets but for any shopping of any sort neighbours share a car and drive to the nearest big place or do internet shopping with delivery. Villages have infant and primary schools but secondary education is in the nearest big place and there is a school bus. In Las Hurdes the children go to school in the dark and come home in the dark as anyone who has ever been to Las Hurdes will know it takes ages to get anywhere and, for some students, the bus trip can be over an hour long — each way.

However, tourism is essential to these areas. There are still generous grants for casa rural industries. Agriculture is the new 'tourist attraction' with bodegas, mills, cheese factories, co-operativas and olive groves all open for tours, tastings and explanations. It's very impressive. There are also bird-guiding and walking companies that are constantly busy. Tourists do go to remote areas and love it.

In the long run, Extremadura will survive and while villages may lose a percentage of their young people many stay. English, Dutch, German, Belgian and other N Europeans are moving in slowly. They bring money sourced from outside the country. They bring work — staff in their casa rurales, restaurants, enterprises and such like. It's not an answer but it's a sticking plaster for now.

wollie
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Re: Depopulation in Rural Spain

Postby wollie » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:15 am

I think this good post.
I have also being watching this for the last number of years. All of the better paid jobs are in cities so the young people want to be there where they can earn better wages and have an better lifestyle, the downside of this is a large prepartion of the extra money goes on rent which is recently becoming more to investment and financial institutions.
The globalisation of manufacture of goods means that things that were produced in Spain just a few years ago are now outsourced, add to that we can buy these goods on-line so there is no need for shops which create a community and employment.
It is now 10 years since i done my project and i notice the fixtures were all top quality Spanish fixtures and fittings, if i go looking for the same fittings now it is mostly cheaper options that are available.
I said this to a guy one day in the store, he said they can source these quality items but because they be at least two times the price they will not sell.
I have notices several shops closing in the last few years and last time i was over went to the hardware and the stock on the hardware store is dwindling.
We cannot rely too much on tourism as working people say UK are not aware of inland Spain, also because it takes more time from their limites holiday time to go inland most just fly in and do the tourist beach holiday.
Also if there is not a basic strong Spanish community with decent employment it is unlikely to work even for tourists as they need to see a vibrant Spanish community
I think it is pretty well the same in most countries and unfortunately i doubt if there is anything can be done to change this.
It is called globalisation and progress and i hate it.

Manchesteral
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Re: Depopulation in Rural Spain

Postby Manchesteral » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:04 pm

Re Lavanda's post regarding transportation etc which is a very good point.

My position would be that small rural area's can be very attractive to a certain section of society, there is nothing to stop these kind of communities being run on a co-operative basis.
A local basic community tax would do it along with some government help.
Small communities are easily policed by the locals and would therefore not require local police involvement.
One small local store and a small bar/restaurant would be enough to service the needs of a small population.
A bi hourly bus service during certain hours to the nearest town would be subsidised by the aforementioned local taxes along with other small rural utilities.
This is certainly doable !!

Lavanda
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Re: Depopulation in Rural Spain

Postby Lavanda » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:11 pm

Agree, totally.

olive
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Re: Depopulation in Rural Spain

Postby olive » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:31 pm

"A bi hourly bus service during certain hours to the nearest town "

Our nearest large village is on a main road between two towns of around 20,000 each. The large village has a population of 680. Daily bus service is just one bus in the morning and one back at 7 p.m. Not really of great use. our small village to the large village has precisely no bus service.

I cannot ever see a better service subsidised by the aforementioned local taxes along with other small rural utilities. Plenty of people have cars though one of our villagers ( I think he is 44) doesn't have a car and lives alone very very simply.

beni. You have me worried now! " I know where you live Olive " Do I need to improve my home insurance!

Being serious. You are right that services will decline. That is the whole point of the campaign. Why should people who choose , for whatever reason, to live and work in the countryside have worse services. Internet is a joke for us campo dwellers. I stayed in a lovely highly recommended on a different post, hotel in the village of Yanguas in Soria. Really miles from anywhere , population of circa 80. The internet was 3g shared across the hotel rooms. Our portable MiFi gave a better service as only one user.

Beachcombers post made me smile. How true. I needed to send an urgent parcel last week via Correos to Scotland. 35 euros for three days delivery. marvellous service but horrendous problems with the address at both ends. In the end a good compromise was made by calling the named property at each end House xxxx and house yyyy. Both are very rural and of course do not fit the mandatory Correos fields.


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