Tartessians

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Lavanda
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Tartessians

Postby Lavanda » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:12 am

The Tartessians lived in the Guadalquivir valley from about 900BC to 550BC. Their influence spread to many places, including Extremadura, but their main areas of habitation were Cádiz, Seville and Huelva provinces (in today's geography). Does anyone know if there are any ruins or sites of specific interest relating to the Tartessians that I could come and visit? Thanks in advance.

BENIDORM
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Re: Tartessians

Postby BENIDORM » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:09 am

Lavanda,
The Tartessos / Tartessian culture has been mentioned to me in the past, and it is reputed to have links with the lost city of Atlantis, regarded by some as mythological , but the site is possibly under the Donana National Park.
As for artefacts there are many coins related to the Tartessian culture, but normally associated with places like Palestine and Syria and some of their language was absorbed into the Phoenician and Iberian culture and I believe also some reference given to it by early Romans.
I would guess that a visit to Museums in Cadiz and Seville may show some light on your quest as I'm sure that they may have some coins-pottery etc that are from the period of occupation, and they were known as great traders so many other Museums in Spain may have some reference to them.
I'm aware that they had a great understanding of working with metals particularly gold and silver, so there could be many artefacts out there wrongly identified with other cultures.
I hope that this is of some help to you.
Regards,
Gordon
Last edited by BENIDORM on Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wollie
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Re: Tartessians

Postby wollie » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:25 am

I cannot answer your specific question.
There is a very interesting history museum in Jerez dating from the origins of that specific region.
It is likely you may get info if you happen to be in the area,
It is about 1km from centre of town and if you drive parking in the courtyard.
I did not give it enough time and must get back there...

Gasman
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Re: Tartessians

Postby Gasman » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:17 pm

Hi Lanvanda
It is an interesting topic - your question set me off on a google search ... lots of myths and fantasies but a lot of historical back-up of various themes. You have probably found similar, but I thought to put some references here in case other folk on the forum might find their interest sparked. Up there in extramadura you apparently have one of the best preserved old sites that is Tartessos in origin - that is the region of Tartessos rather than the lost city itself - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancho_Roano. However the discussion as to whether the city of Tartessos IS under the Donana is still up for debate as far as I can see. Also I have included a reference to San Lucar also - they hold dear to their ancient roots.

Other links follow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartessos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archeological_Museum_of_Seville
https://www.ancient.eu/tartessos/
http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/2500-year-old-city-buried-under-flood-sediment-may-belong-lost-civilization-020521
https://mysteria3000.de/magazin/the-archaeological-search-for-tartessos-tarshish-atlantis/
This book ....
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/tartessos-and-the-phoenicians-in-iberia-9780199672745?cc=us&lang=en&
SanLucar
http://www.andalucia.org/en/routes/the-ancient-rites-of-tartessos-cadiz-and-huelva/
The Caveat
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/8381219/Lost-city-of-Atlantis-buried-in-Spanish-wetlands.html

Cheers
Mrs Gasman

Lavanda
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Re: Tartessians

Postby Lavanda » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:17 pm

Thank you for the responses especially from Mrs Gasman. We do, indeed, have Cancho Roano in Extremadura and I'm going down there on Wednesday. There are so many myths and legends and it's all fascinating but, of course, we only have archeological evidence, interpreted by experts, to help us work out what was what. Herodotus helps us out a bit in his Histories, Chapter I, Paragraph 163 and Chapter IV, Paragraph 152. We do know that Tartessos existed and we also know that it was the first advanced civilization on the Iberian Peninsula and they had writing — got from the Phoenicians who had founded Gadir (Cádiz) to trade in the metals the Tartessians mined in the Sierra Morena. The links, above, are good but Wikipedia is sometimes a bit limited:

"The El Carambolo treasure[edit]
The museum's basement houses the El Carambolo treasure, discovered in Camas (3 km NW of Seville) in 1958. The treasure comprises 2950 grams of 24 carat gold and consists of golden bracelets, a golden chain with pendant, buckles, belt- and forehead plates. Some regard the El Carambolo treasure as proof of the Tartessian roots[1] of Seville. This is, however, disputed[1] because the treasure includes a small figurine of Astarte, a Phoenician goddess."


Well, yes, the treasure might include a small figurine of the Phoenician Goddess Astarte but that might be because the Phoenicians heavily influenced the religious practices of the Tartessians, no? Yes. That is well documented.

I shall go through the links very carefully and schedule a trip down to the Seville Museum at the very least. It's very exciting stuff to think that we live in an area that was at the forefront of advanced civilization 3000-2500 years ago.

There is this, as well:

https://elpais.com/elpais/2016/10/13/inenglish/1476367333_355707.html

Gasman
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Re: Tartessians

Postby Gasman » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:36 pm

The El Pais article gives you some other places to visit in your area Lavanda. Very nice article - thanks. Let us know what you find on Wednesday. We may have to send Benidorm exploring again.
Mrs G

Lavanda
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Re: Tartessians

Postby Lavanda » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:19 pm

I went to Cancho Roano yesterday. It was not that hard to find once the dirt track to the site had been identified. The Interpretation Centre was a bit 'home-made' but had lots of very useful information with place names and dates of all the artefacts found in the area plus a huge model of the 'sanctuary' itself with helpful explanations of what was what. All in Spanish, only. However, that wasn't a problem as a ceramic pot could be identified as such from its photograph and a place name in Spanish is not so far from the English, mostly, and dates are dates. After a 30 minutes in the centre I went outside and walked the short distance to the ruins themselves. Wow! They were much larger than I had expected and there were more of them in terms of walls and wall heights. There were many information boards in Spanish AND English and these were, in my experience, close to excellent.

As it was a freezing but bright January day I had the place to myself. The sanctuary is approached by a small bridge which crosses the perimeter moat, full of water, fed from the nearby stream. The building is symmetrical and has a sloping path all around to prevent the water from the moat from entering the building when the water is high. Maybe, 2500 years ago there was another climate altogether as the chances of that happening today must be non-existent. Nevertheless, it did show that the building architects (unknown) were aware of flood possibilities and that gives rise to all sorts of conjectures not part of these ramblings. Next inward were six rooms on each of the four sides which were, presumably, inhabited by attendants to the sanctuary. All manner of household items, including sewing utensils, pots with seeds, wine cups, etc. have been discovered. In from these rooms was another path or walkway going all the way around.

The entrance, straight ahead from the bridge — but I walked the outside before going inside — was impressive and originally had two towers on either side. Inside the sanctuary had numerous rooms around a patio in which was an altar and a circular rise in the floor with a triangular edge and a small channel. It is thought this was for offering sacred fluids to the gods. It is suggested that the Tartessians adopted the Phoenician practice of offering wine to the gods and the wine vessels found on the site indicate they did, at least, drink wine. Another suggestion is that the blood of sacrifices was used. We don't know.

It was a very atmospheric place and took me a good hour to explore everything. It was quite important for me to keep reminding myself that the building was 500 years older than the Roman remains scattered all over Extremadura but, of course, they are not the oldest things we have. The cave paintings date back to about 25,000BC and the dolmens are between 6,000BC and 3,000BC. Nevertheless, it was pretty impressive.

The site has toilets (decent with paper, water, soap and paper towels) plus a picnic area but no café or shop.

olive
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Re: Tartessians

Postby olive » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:19 pm

Very interesting account and thread. Thanks.

That is on my 2018 list now.

Gasman
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Re: Tartessians

Postby Gasman » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:08 pm

Lavanda
Thanks for your description - sounds like a very interesting site ... but you did not mention the entrance fee ...
We may get up there some time to do some exploring.
Cheers
Mrs Gasman

Lavanda
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Re: Tartessians

Postby Lavanda » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:24 pm

It's free, Mrs Gasman. Most of the museums and sights in Extremadura are free. The Visigoth Church in Alcuéscar, for example, is one of only two such buildings in Spain. It's free. When an entrance fee is charged it's usually €1.00. However, the multi-ticket to see the five top sights in Mérida is €11.00.

Gasman
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Re: Tartessians

Postby Gasman » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:56 pm

:wtf: :thumbup: :thumbup: :clap:
:wave:
Mrs G

Lavanda
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Re: Tartessians

Postby Lavanda » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:23 am


olive
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Re: Tartessians

Postby olive » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:59 am

I saw that too. Very interesting.

Similarly the finding that the cave paintings in Northern Spain were probably done by Neanderthals. There was me thinking they went on to become NRA members.

Lavanda
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Re: Tartessians

Postby Lavanda » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:02 pm

Ha! Ha! When I've finished my research I'm going to write a short piece for the andalucia.com history section. Your new History group sounds very interesting. Good luck with it.

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chrissiehope
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Re: Tartessians

Postby chrissiehope » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:21 pm

Fascinating reading :-)
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Re: Tartessians

Postby maureenscot » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:37 pm

fascinating, thank you

Gasman
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Re: Tartessians

Postby Gasman » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:50 pm

Looks like they have a massive amount of work to do after their amazing discovery. Hope they can get proper funding for it. Very interesting article - thanks
Mrs G


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