FROM A HUNTERS POINT

[frank]

Good for you, Scot! I'm sure you will.
Mowser, I'll look forward to that! Not much of a pint man nowadays, can you run to a nice glass of Albariño? ;-) Bit more expensive than that supermarket stuff mind!

[Mowser]

Good on you Scot!

[masterob]

Mowser wrote

I am a Spanish resident and have been for over 5 years. I contributed into the UK system for more than 30 years. Because of my previous work, I pay UK tax on my work pension. For this, I receive no UK benefits. I declare this tax in my Spanish tax return, but because of this anomaly my tax here is €0.00.

Because I have private medical care here, and am not allowed to pay into the Spanish system, I can't get the Spanish equivalent of the EHIC. Because I'm not a UK resident I can't get a UK EHIC card.

I'm also in receipt of a Government Pension and hence pay UK tax on it but, it's not all bad news. My UK State Pension is now exempt from UK taxation and thus not added to the Government Occupational Pension for taxation. I declare that element in Spain but pay no Spanish tax on it because it falls below the tax threshold here! Were my UK Occupational Pension not taxed in the UK then both would be liable for Spanish tax.

In regard to not getting UK benefits, a couple of years or so ago someone posted on this Forum information on those who can, while living overseas, receive NHS treatment in the UK. It was a long list and included retired people paying UK tax on their Government Occupational Pensions. Search as I may, I cannot find it now.

As to the EHIC, you automatically qualify for one in Spain once you draw your UK State Pension as of course, you do for treatment under the Spanish Health System. That said, when I was in the UK back in September I was unwell and went to a NHS Walk in Centre, I offered them my Spanish EHIC card but they were not interested, no need apparently. Maybe they thought I was an asylum seeker not that I believe all the stuff about immigrants getting the earth as is alleged by some here. A Daily Mail/BNP inspired myth methinks.

[Scot]

masterob it is all over the news at the moment about Polish immigrants in the UK claiming child benefit for children they have left behind in their home countries. It is in the Telegraph 1st November and I'm sure theres loads of info if you google it. As for myths, the member of staff in the dss office told me direct if I was an immigrant arriving in the UK, I would get aid from the first day I arrive. As a returning Brit I do not qualify.

[Campo Steve]

Like others have said, and I have said before, I knew the score when we came here. I knew I couldn't get free health care straight away if I went back to UK (which we don't plan on doing).

But I do wonder what the £300+ per month I pay in tax on my occupational pension in UK is paying for if I am not there. Yes, a claim is in for a rebate as I also pay tax in Spain, but this is my first year and my understanding is I won't get it all back.

My point is, I am still paying into the system in UK. It may not be National Insurance but let's be honest, it all goes into the same coffers.

I'm not a whinger or a moaner, I just don't like paying and getting nothing in return. It feels like handing over money at ASDA and walking out with an empty bag. Nobody would be happy at doing that.

Plus, as Scot points out, immigrants to UK from Poland or wherever don't have to wait, or have paid into the UK system. If it was the same for everyone I probably wouldn't even be posting, but it isn't! All I want is for it to be the same for everyone.

[julian]

"But I do wonder what the £300+ per month I pay in tax on my occupational pension in UK is paying for if I am not there"

a politician´s new duckpond maybe ????

[Scot]

Asda? I feel like I have shopped at Waitrose and left with an empty bag

[katy]

Returning pensioners are eligible for benefits from day 1.

[frank]

"Like others have said, and I have said before, I knew the score when we came here."
Then what you would have to pay should have come as no surprise, that's the deal. You say you aren't a moaner, but what is the point of your post other than to have a moan. It's a bit like people moaning they can't get winter fuel allowance (yes, I know those that were in receipt of it before they left get it), that's the deal. It's an allowance supposedly intended for those living in UK, not those enjoying balmy winters in Spain or Florida where the sun always shines! There are many forums full of complaining expats, not just Spain, and had they done their homework well before they jumped ship, they would have been far better equipped to deal with life there. My brother is an expat, living in Sweden, and he's no different, cannot resist slagging off UK or having a moan about it. Perhaps you all should have stayed here, then you'd really have something to moan about. ;-)

[Mowser]

Masterbob:

When we went back to the UK for a holiday, I paid a visit to say "hello" to my previous doctor. He said if we wanted, we could sign on as a temporary resident.

Frank: WE AIN'T MOANING! We simply question the system whereby anyone can go into the UK and get NHS treatment from day 1 and we can't. Britain is trying to save on the NHS bill. Simple solution. Use the same rules as Spain. You get treatment if you pay into the system or tough luck.

[julian]

if there was no moaning and groaning here then there wouldn´t be much left on the a.com forum !!

[Scot]

Frank I thought you were happy in the UK? We are missing the point here as I am not expecting something for nothing. Like Campo Steve and Mowser say, a level playing field for all, surely that's not too much to ask, is it? As you'll gather I am a little peeved but the moment will pass. We have always said the UK should be more like Spain in terms of the system, you contribute, you benefit. Simples! If you don't contribute,then you have to starve and thats ok, isn't it?

[Campo Steve]

Frank. I say again, I am not moaning, merely pointing out the differences.

The rules didn't come as a surprise, we did our research, and accepted them. We knew we would require private medical insurance from the day the E106 runs out until we hit state pension age.

But that doesn't stop me, and others, from suggesting changes. Changes such as it being the EU and perhaps all should be treated the same. Whether that is the Spanish system or the UK system I don't mind, I just feel all should have the same rules applied wherever they are in the EU.

[Devils Advocate]

The animosity (if that's the correct term ) between expats and UK dwellers will always be there IMHO, and an agreement on viewpoints will always be hard to reach.

Again IMHO, I feel the seeds for this were sown many years ago by the "last one out switch the lights off" brigade of which TV and latterly forums such as this gave much air time to, people remember things and gloats such as that (which is a shame for the genuine people with no axe to grind over there) .

We bought our first place just on 8 years back as a non investment,no ulterior motive holiday home, nothing more nothing less, we loved Spain(still do) and that was that.
What we did notice at a very early stage was the difference in attitudes between guys similar to us and the full timers....it was as though a lot of the full time people had a pact to bull Spain up to ridiculous heights whilst at the same time dissing the UK sometimes whilst we were present which landed me in a few sharp worded exchanges I promise..........bl00dy rude and false it always seemed to across as. You could never have a nice goodbye with some people when you were leaving as they'd come out with something like "Oh poor sods having to go back there" , eh?, we could stay if we wanted to!

As the work/pool cleaning aspect has become tight over there the camps are even more divided I'm sorry to say in our experiences. There now seems 3 catagories. One for people like us who enjoy the place whenever we are there, secondly for people who are full time but have the wherewithall to take what life throws at them in sickness and in health and you know for a fact they'd never leave even though they can afford to (good on them too) and then finally the people who are trapped yet still find time to hammer the UK whilst eeking an existance there and generally sending out bad vibes to anybody who is in their company........self denial of the truth all the time it sometimes seems.

I was recently accused on here of "not having the bottle" to make the move to Spain I DON'T WANT TO!,I'd save a packet if I did, but unfortunately that's the sort of comment metered out if you dare say anything that may make the self denial wobble.
I have to say a lot of good posts written by people with pure honesty have been submitted on this thread, and these are my honest feelings too.

PS I'm impressed with Scots efforts, and I do see where Campo Steve is coming from.....again because he's done well and earned a pension the wolves want some, if he'd been a deadbeat there'd be nothing to pay

[frank]

Agree entirely with DA. Whilst not all expats are the same, there are many that seem to want to gloat about their brilliant chosen lifestyle (and then come into forums like this and moan like hell). Can't they see it, that we've been visiting for nearly 30 years, love holidaying there, but absolutely no way would we want to live there? Not the same words, but had similar said to us about not having the cojones to move out there. They seem to have problems understanding that what suits them, might not suit others, that we decided long ago, it's not for us. Our ex neighbours and very good friends keep telling me there are village houses going very cheap at the moment, come on out! We don't want to!!!!!!!!! Whilst there are many comfortably off ex pats living a good life, I have seen far too many scratching an existence there, and it ain't a pretty sight. I'm happy for those that are happy living the dream, but I'm happy where I am, thank you. ;-)

[masterob]

scot wrote

masterob it is all over the news at the moment about Polish immigrants in the UK claiming child benefit for children they have left behind in their home countries. It is in the Telegraph 1st November and I'm sure theres loads of info if you google it. As for myths, the member of staff in the dss office told me direct if I was an immigrant arriving in the UK, I would get aid from the first day I arrive. As a returning Brit I do not qualify.

I did read that Telegraph article at the time and I also read beyond the first line which explained why such payments are made. Presumably your point in quoting it is, that Polish workers, currently paying taxes in the UK should not receive such benefits? Why because they are Polish and not British born and bred?

If you want to go down the road of anomalies, why not argue that British immigrants in Spain should not be paid Winter Fuel Allowance, Disability Allowances etc. At least that would be consistent without being xenophobic!

I understand your moan that having returned to the UK you cannot immediately get State Allowances etc but bringing up the "Foreigners get them" whinge does not, in my view, strengthen your case. As to what you were told by the DSS (presumably you mean the DWP) I cannot help but remain cynical and I suspect that it is not as straightforward as an immigrant turning up and being paid loads of money just like that. But then what do I know? I do know that as a retired civil servant I am dismayed that a staff member of the DSS/DWP should be expressing such xenophobic opinions!

[frank]

"Frank I thought you were happy in the UK? "
I am, did I say otherwise? Is it perfect here? No, of course it isn't, but it suits me, and for day to day living, IMHO it's far better than Spain. I live in a beautiful part of UK, far removed from all the inner city problems, the traffic etc. and this'll do me fine, I see no reason to contemplate a move. Expats will disagree, or they would not be expats, but their choice was to emigrate, mine is to stay.

[Scot]

When we made the decision to move to Spain, we cancelled our child benefit for our 2 children as we were no longer in the UK system. However, it would appear that I should have started this claim again 2 years ago when my OH returned to the UK to work? It was the portability of the benefit I didn't understand and will look into this on Monday. I had no idea this option was available to us.
Again, I was told several years ago that I cannot claim Disability as I was living in Spain. I have saved an email that was sent to me so can prove this fact.
All the claims are done now by phone and there was the boy on the phone who made that statement to me as well as a similar statement to me in a local office, face to face. I was explaining that I seemed to be exempt from all help and wondered if I would qualify for child benefit! I felt they were exasparated, like I was, at the system. On a forum, you don't see how I struggle physically, words can't create the reality. I'm looking forward to going in to see him on Monday to tell him I have a job!
As for xenophobic, I have no fear or dislike for another. Like you, I don't always agree, that's all

[Scot]

Frank you ended with the line "Perhaps you all should have stayed here, then you'd really have something to moan about."

[Bongtrees]

Why dont the DWP ever contribute to this type of thread.

Scot obviously was twice given the wrong info.

The position of expats returning to the UK should be clarified on here once and for all by the DWP..

[markwilding]

Not all immigrants to the UK can get benifits, If you are from the EU there is a qualifying period before you can claim . this rule was brought in 15 years or so back to stop students from France Spain and Italy who going to the UK during their summer break and were signing on and claiming housing benfit without paying into the system.
The spanish who return to Spain after living abroad have the same problems when they return They are entitled to no more than any EU person coming to live here. it's diffilcult for them to get a job as well.
In fact the just about only extra rights a Spanish national has more than us is that they can work for the Spanish administration and can vote in the national elections

[Mowser]

NHS charges and people from abroad:-

If you are entitled to it, you can obtain free treatment immediately. There is no qualifying period.

Straight from their web page.

[frank]

"Frank you ended with the line "Perhaps you all should have stayed here, then you'd really have something to moan about." ;-)"
Ah, OK! ;-) Fair point. What I meant was that most expats can find enough to complain about the UK, even from a distance, I'm sure they'd find more if they were actually living here. ;-) ¡Estoy más contento que un enano! (never quite sure why the Spanish say "I'm happier than a dwarf/midget" to mean really happy??????

[katy]

Most people who live in Spain take it personally if someone says they do not like Spain etc. Even the ones who are desperately trying to sell don't voice their opinions. I think they are scared of talking down the market. I have a friend who hates living where she is (high on a mountain and a dangerous track.) I have been with her when people have asked if she is happy in spain and she has answered (oh yes, I love it) Some leave and come back too.

We have had links with Spain since my Grandfather, my parents had a property here but never considered living here. Neither my son or daughter are keen on Spain even though they loved it as kids. When we told them we were planning to spend a couple of summer months in the UK my Daughter said she was pleased as they wouldn't feel as if they had to come to Spain to see us and could holiday elsewhere. It is not sacrilige not to like Spain, I know people who think it is a dump and wouldn't even holiday there but I manage to like them.

[Scot]

Bongtrees I have been given loads of duff info No one what they are talking about here anymore. I have spent hours filling in paperwork inc 3 hours of the CABs valuable time when a simple you haven't been in the UK for the last 26 weeks would have sufficed. Oh well, the long and difficult paperwork has worked it's magic and I've got myself a job instead!!

[julian]

Don´t tell us that after all the complaints and moans here about the misinformation from the administration in spain that it´s the same in the UK ! OMG !!

[katy]

Scot wouldn't you have been entitled because your OH has been working in the UK for the last 2 years?

[Scot]

I've had loads on confusing and conflicting info. I guess we are entitled to child benefit even as newly returned and we are awaiting the decision! The irony is that theres about 10 different divisions all "specialising" in one area!! You go to the Jobcentre, funny thing is I was looking for a job when this all started, and when they see the state of you they give you a piece of paper with all the different sections numbers and you go home and call them.

Yes Julian, I'm afraid that it's all Spanish folk employed by the DWP

[julian]

Well, they´ll have had good training in misinfo !!

[Mowser]

You cols have tried, "Jestem polskim. Jakie są moje zalety?"