Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

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BrinleyDavies
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby BrinleyDavies » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:27 pm

Thanks to all concerned for the help provided here and in the FAQs.

I live in the UK but have always submitted my Modelo 210 in person at my bank, La Caixa. I'm registered for Internet banking and have just seen on the website that there's now a facility to make tax submissions and to pay online. From the list that you can navigate to, it appears that this includes the Modelo 210.

I've also found on the AEAT website it says "Filing can be done electronically over the Internet, with electronic DNI (Spanish National ID), digital certificate, Cl@ve PIN or reference number."

My question is does anyone know what the "reference number" is in this context? Is this a number that appears on the completed Modelo 210?

It also (on the La Caixa website) asks for the "Anagram" but the picture it provides of where the anagram can be found isn't how it is now shown on the Modelo 210. It's looks more like the sticky labels that used to be provided. Is it the 4 letter code that comes after the bar code on the third page of the form?

I suppose I could give it a go but it would be helpful if anyone has tried this method of payment.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby adamski » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:24 pm

I'm now back in the UK and thought I would give an update following my post of 20th Jan 2018...

I followed the steps elsewhere on these forums for obtaining a Digital Certificate, and received an email to print off and take to an issuing office in Spain. I also arranged an appointment at my local AEAT tax office - I did this online at the following page:

https://www.agenciatributaria.gob.es/AE ... evia.shtml

I had already printed off all necessary information and also a Google translation in Spanish of all my questions - that turned out to be sensible, as the staff did not speak much English (though they were very helpful).

Looking at my payment record on their screen, I could see that all my previous tax forms (up to 2015) were showing correctly, however there was nothing showing for 2016 (the one I had done online through my bank). However this was showing elsewhere on their system, so I asked for a receipt confirming this. The tax office did not seem concerned about not having received the modelo 210 form itself - though maybe they didn't follow what I was saying!

While at the tax office, I completed the process for obtaining the Digital Certificate, received an email instantly, and have just now installed the DC on my PC back here in the UK (incidentally this part of the process worked fine using Windows 10 and Chrome).

I've now just gone onto the AEAT site at the following page:

https://www.agenciatributaria.gob.es/AE ... GF00.shtml

where there is an option (with a DC) to 'provide supplementary documentation' - I've uploaded a copy of the completed modelo 210 form with a note so at least they now definitely have the form if they want it.

I never did find out what to do with the CRN/NRC number!

Enrique - thanks for the link showing possible locations to apply for the DC. I used the AEAT as I wanted to go there anyway, but there are other options showing near to where we live.

When December 2018 comes around I will plan to submit my 2017 return online at the AEAT site using my DC. Hopefully this will be a straightforward process including the setting up of a direct debit agreement, entering debit card details or similar!

adamski

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby adamski » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:06 pm

BrinleyDavies wrote:I live in the UK but have always submitted my Modelo 210 in person at my bank, La Caixa. I'm registered for Internet banking and have just seen on the website that there's now a facility to make tax submissions and to pay online. From the list that you can navigate to, it appears that this includes the Modelo 210.

I've also found on the AEAT website it says "Filing can be done electronically over the Internet, with electronic DNI (Spanish National ID), digital certificate, Cl@ve PIN or reference number."

My question is does anyone know what the "reference number" is in this context? Is this a number that appears on the completed Modelo 210?

It also (on the La Caixa website) asks for the "Anagram" but the picture it provides of where the anagram can be found isn't how it is now shown on the Modelo 210. It's looks more like the sticky labels that used to be provided. Is it the 4 letter code that comes after the bar code on the third page of the form?

I suppose I could give it a go but it would be helpful if anyone has tried this method of payment.


Hi BrinleyDavies, see my post above for my experience of paying online via the Bankia website last October.

Looking at the following:

https://www.agenciatributaria.gob.es/AE ... GF00.shtml

although 'reference number' is mentioned (I don't know what it refers to), it does not appear as an acceptable method for any of the operations you might want to carry out!

Anagrama is the 4 letter code you mention, which used to be on the sticky labels and now appears next to the barcode on the modelo 210 PDF generated by the AEAT website. I think the first 3 letters are taken from your surname and the 4th is generated by the system.

I can't help thinking that the modelo 210 payment option offered by the banks is for people who have got a Digital Certificate and are submitting their modelo 210 forms that way. They can make the payment using their online banking, obtain a CRN/NRC reference number, and enter this on the AEAT site as proof of payment.

For anyone without a Digital Certificate, I think there may be a better option. If you follow the AEAT link above and download the 19 page PDF 'Instructions for filling in your self-assessment form', then on page 18 it gives instructions for 'paying through a foreign bank'. It seems to me that you could generate the PDF as normal on the AEAT site, then to make the payment, do an online transfer from your spanish bank, completing the Beneficiario (Payee) and Concepto (Subject) fields as shown in the instructions. The details of the AEAT bank account to be credited are shown on the generated modelo 210 PDF. In this way, AEAT would receive the funds and all the necessary information to link to the modelo 210 PDF generated by their system.

Hope this makes sense?!

adamski

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby adamski » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:39 pm

Hi all, following on from my previous post I thought I would try and make my thoughts clearer on 'Making payments online from a spanish or foreign bank account if you do NOT have a digital certificate'...

Go to the modelo 210 homepage in English https://www.agenciatributaria.gob.es/AE ... GF00.shtml

Click on Information & Assistance - General Information - Instructions

(or use this direct link http://www.agenciatributaria.es/static_ ... _en_gb.pdf)

This is a 19 page PDF which I suggest you download to your PC. It is in English and titled 'Form 210 - Instructions for filling in your self-assessment form - Non-resident Income Tax'

On page 18 there are instructions for 'payment through a foreign bank'. I don't see why you can't use these instructions to pay through any bank, including a spanish one. More on this later, but first you need to complete your modelo 210 tax form in the way you are probably used to doing:

Go back to the modelo 210 homepage in English https://www.agenciatributaria.gob.es/AE ... GF00.shtml

Click on Preliminary tax return - Form 210 for filing

Enter all the information as usual, then scroll down to the bottom of the form and click to generate a PDF copy of your completed form 210 - this is the form you normally take or post to your spanish bank.

From this completed form you will need to note down:

(shown on every page) Número de justificante: a 13 digit number starting with 250 (remember that each time you generate a new PDF it will have a new number, so if it takes you a few attempts to get the PDF correct, delete the ones you don't need to avoid confusion!)

(shown on pages 4 and 5) Anagrama - 4 characters shown to the right of the barcode. The first three characters should, I think, match the first three of your surname.

(shown on pages 4 and 5) The details of the Spanish Tax Office's bank account: IBAN ES87 9000 0001 2002 7000 2107

(in case needed, these are not shown on the form but I looked them up online using the IBAN: Bank=Banco De Espana; BIC/SWIFT=ESPBESMMXXX, Address=Calle de Alcalá 48, 28014 Madrid)

Now go back to the 'Instructions' PDF you downloaded earlier, the following is taken from page 18.

You should now have all the information needed to make the transfer from your (foreign or spanish) bank in the same way you would make any other transfer - i.e. NOT using the modelo 210 option on your spanish bank's website.

In the Beneficiario/Payee field, enter your 13 digit Número de justificante (from above) followed by AEAT, for example 2501234567890AEAT

In the Concepto/Details field, enter the following, without spaces in between:

Your NIE/NIF (9 digits)

Modelo/Form (3 digits) - 210

Tax year (last 2 digits) e.g. 17 for 2017 forms due by the end of 2018

Anagrama (4 characters) - see above

Period (2 digits) - 0A (zero-A not letter O-A) - assuming you only submit one modelo 210 each year

So you will end up with 20 characters/digits, for example X1234567A21017SMIV0A

There is normally no need to send anything in the post - AEAT will receive your payment through your bank, and are able to trace the modelo 210 form on their system through the reference numbers you have provided. If, however, AEAT do need any further information from you, this will be mentioned on page 1 of your modelo 210 PDF and should be sent by post to the address provided (in Madrid).

Hope this is helpful and would be interested in your thoughts/comments!

adamski

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jamesbowker
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby jamesbowker » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:42 pm

At the risk of a big groan from those more experienced in completing 210 than me....
I have a grasp of the calculations required to complete the 210 form, I have a Spanish NIE and bank account and am quite happy to submit the forms at the bank when I'm next in Spain. When I access the the Agencia Tributaria site I cannot find a straightforward to complete and submit the necessary info without a digital certificate etc https://www.agenciatributaria.gob.es/AE ... GF00.shtml
Basically there doesn't seem to be an option for me to do it the old fashionedish way (though I would prefer to do it online if I could)
Am grateful in anticipation of your advice/help/comments

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby adamski » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:06 am

jamesbowker wrote:At the risk of a big groan from those more experienced in completing 210 than me....

Hi jamesbowker,

It may be easier to use the english version of the page you linked to: https://www.agenciatributaria.gob.es/AE ... GF00.shtml

The options available if you don't have a digital certificate are fairly near the top of the page, under Formalities - Preliminary tax return

More help on filling the form in here: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=27897

I think you should be able to do the whole thing - including making payment - online if you want to - have a look at my previous post just above yours.

adamski

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Enrique » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 am

Hi Guys,
I would encourage members to use the Links in the FAQ...........

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=27897

This helps "The Mods" to keep them up to date ,

"At the risk of a big groan from those more experienced in completing 210 than me.".........just fire away with the questions......James......... :D
UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby jamesbowker » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:39 am

Hi Adamski,
Many thanks for your clear instructions - I have finally managed to generate a pdf!

Thanks again, and Enrique - apologies for not correctly following posting etiquette.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby jamesbowker » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:53 pm

adamski wrote:Hi all, following on from my previous post I thought I would try and make my thoughts clearer on 'Making payments online from a spanish or foreign bank account if you do NOT have a digital certificate'...

Go to the modelo 210 homepage in English https://www.agenciatributaria.gob.es/AE ... GF00.shtml

Click on Information & Assistance - General Information - Instructions

(or use this direct link http://www.agenciatributaria.es/static_ ... _en_gb.pdf)

This is a 19 page PDF which I suggest you download to your PC. It is in English and titled 'Form 210 - Instructions for filling in your self-assessment form - Non-resident Income Tax'

On page 18 there are instructions for 'payment through a foreign bank'. I don't see why you can't use these instructions to pay through any bank, including a spanish one. More on this later, but first you need to complete your modelo 210 tax form in the way you are probably used to doing:

Go back to the modelo 210 homepage in English https://www.agenciatributaria.gob.es/AE ... GF00.shtml

Click on Preliminary tax return - Form 210 for filing

Enter all the information as usual, then scroll down to the bottom of the form and click to generate a PDF copy of your completed form 210 - this is the form you normally take or post to your spanish bank.

From this completed form you will need to note down:

(shown on every page) Número de justificante: a 13 digit number starting with 250 (remember that each time you generate a new PDF it will have a new number, so if it takes you a few attempts to get the PDF correct, delete the ones you don't need to avoid confusion!)

(shown on pages 4 and 5) Anagrama - 4 characters shown to the right of the barcode. The first three characters should, I think, match the first three of your surname.

(shown on pages 4 and 5) The details of the Spanish Tax Office's bank account: IBAN ES87 9000 0001 2002 7000 2107

(in case needed, these are not shown on the form but I looked them up online using the IBAN: Bank=Banco De Espana; BIC/SWIFT=ESPBESMMXXX, Address=Calle de Alcalá 48, 28014 Madrid)

Now go back to the 'Instructions' PDF you downloaded earlier, the following is taken from page 18.

You should now have all the information needed to make the transfer from your (foreign or spanish) bank in the same way you would make any other transfer - i.e. NOT using the modelo 210 option on your spanish bank's website.

In the Beneficiario/Payee field, enter your 13 digit Número de justificante (from above) followed by AEAT, for example 2501234567890AEAT

In the Concepto/Details field, enter the following, without spaces in between:

Your NIE/NIF (9 digits)

Modelo/Form (3 digits) - 210

Tax year (last 2 digits) e.g. 17 for 2017 forms due by the end of 2018

Anagrama (4 characters) - see above

Period (2 digits) - 0A (zero-A not letter O-A) - assuming you only submit one modelo 210 each year

So you will end up with 20 characters/digits, for example X1234567A21017SMIV0A

There is normally no need to send anything in the post - AEAT will receive your payment through your bank, and are able to trace the modelo 210 form on their system through the reference numbers you have provided. If, however, AEAT do need any further information from you, this will be mentioned on page 1 of your modelo 210 PDF and should be sent by post to the address provided (in Madrid).

Hope this is helpful and would be interested in your thoughts/comments!

adamski


This is fantastic information but I wonder if you would receive any form of receipt/confirmation of payment other then your bank records?

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby adamski » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:29 pm

Hi jamesbowker,

Pleased to be of some help! Using the method I suggested above, the only proof of payment would be your own bank records - but that's no different from the rubber stamp you would get on the paper form if you went into the bank. If you want confirmation from the Tax Office themselves, you should probably apply for a Digital Certificate (see http://andalucia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=27571) - I did it while out in Spain last month after putting it off for years, all very straightforward. Then you can log in to the Tax Office website and see all your previous payments.

adamski

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby ericsbcn » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:50 pm

adamski wrote:There is normally no need to send anything in the post - AEAT will receive your payment through your bank, and are able to trace the modelo 210 form on their system through the reference numbers you have provided. If, however, AEAT do need any further information from you, this will be mentioned on page 1 of your modelo 210 PDF and should be sent by post to the address provided (in Madrid).

Hope this is helpful and would be interested in your thoughts/comments!

adamski


How do they trace the modelo 210, if you haven't sent it in?

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby ericsbcn » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:09 pm

About the reference number / NRC... Yes, I believe it's like an electronic receipt, showing that you've paid.

For example, we usually submit the 210 online with digital certificate. At the bottom of the form, when you select "to deposit", there is a place to fill in the NRC. There is also an option to "get NRC". When I select that, it takes me to another page where I can enter the amount and my bank account info. After I've completed the payment, it generates a number (the NRC) and takes me back to the 210. The NRC is automatically filled in. I then submit the completed 210.

I imagine that, if you've paid online via you bank's website, it will generate an NRC after the payment, which you could then fill in on the 210, and submit online.

- Eric S.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby adamski » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:06 am

ericsbcn wrote:
adamski wrote:There is normally no need to send anything in the post - AEAT will receive your payment through your bank, and are able to trace the modelo 210 form on their system through the reference numbers you have provided. If, however, AEAT do need any further information from you, this will be mentioned on page 1 of your modelo 210 PDF and should be sent by post to the address provided (in Madrid).

Hope this is helpful and would be interested in your thoughts/comments!

adamski


How do they trace the modelo 210, if you haven't sent it in?


Hi ericsbcn, when you complete the modelo 210 on AEAT's website, it is saved to their system using the 13 digit Número de justificante (which also appears on the PDF generated by the system). You have quoted this 13 digit number in the Beneficiario/Payee field when making your bank transfer online, this enables AEAT to match the payment with the modelo 210.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby adamski » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:18 am

ericsbcn wrote:About the reference number / NRC... Yes, I believe it's like an electronic receipt, showing that you've paid.

I imagine that, if you've paid online via you bank's website, it will generate an NRC after the payment, which you could then fill in on the 210, and submit online.

- Eric S.


Yes that's exactly what happened to me last year, Eric. But because I didn't at that time have a Digital Certificate, I didn't know what to do with the NRC or how to link my payment to my completed modelo 210 on AEAT's system. Which prompted me to look into the system in a little more detail, hence my posts above.

adamski

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby nevillewillmott » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:58 pm

Hi

Does anyone have info' re submitting tax returns to Agencia Tributaria when non Spanish residents rent out their property in Spain?

As I understand it, it still requires filling in Modelo 210, but on a quarterly basis. Does it differ from the procedure for Renta Imputada? For example, with Renta Imputada, tax for 2018 is not due until 2019. Is this also the case for rental income?

Dandote anticipadas gracias

Neville Willmott

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby ashtondav » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:25 am

You submit form 210 with rental income and expenses each quarter. You pay tax on the net income each quarter, when you submit it. If the property is in two names you submit a 210 form for each person.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby nevillewillmott » Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:28 pm

Hi

Thanks for informative reply

So, would I be correct in thinking that any rental income accruing should be declared within 3 months?

As far as Agencia Tributaria are concerned, are the quarters January - March, April - June etc or can you choose your own quarters?

Dandote anticipadas gracias

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby ericsbcn » Mon May 07, 2018 9:42 pm

Yes, the quarters are: January - March, April - June etc. Needs to be done within 20 days after the end of the quarter.

If there is any time period during the year when the property is not rented, then you also have to submit the Form 210 for imputed income. Here's my little cheat sheet on the Form 210 differences for each:

For rental income:
type 01
file quarterly - first 20 days after the end of the quarter (1 - 15 for Internet payments)
use Grouping
accrual date blank

For imputed income:
type 02
file annually - before Dec. 31 of the next year
prorate the amount for period of the year when not rented
period OA
no Grouping
accrual date 3112yyyy (Dec. 31)

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby nevillewillmott » Sat May 19, 2018 12:36 am

'If there is any time period during the year when the property is not rented, then you also have to submit the Form 210 for imputed income.'

Hi Eric S

Tx for helpful reply

If I have understood what you wrote above:-

1. Tax on rental income and Renta Imputada are due on different years

2. If tax on rental income is due for a particular quarter, then Renta Imputada is NOT due for that quarter the following year. So, if, for example, rental income is due for every quarter in a particular year (and the four tax returns are completed and tax paid), then NO Renta Imputada is due the following year

Would be grateful to know if this is also your understanding

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby ericsbcn » Fri May 25, 2018 2:39 pm

Hi. Sorry for the late reply.

1. For rental income, you file Form 210 in first 20 days after the end of any quarter where you had rental income. For imputed income, you file any time during the year if your property was not rented any time in the previous year.

2. Imputed income goes by the year, not by the quarter. So you file Form 210 if the property was not rented at any time during the year.

Here's an example from my case in 2017:

We rented our property Jan - June and Sept - Dec. In July and August it was not rented.

- At the beginning of April 2017, I filed Form 210 for rental income Jan - Mar.
- At the beginning of July 2017, I filed Form 210 for rental income Apr - June
- At the beginning of October 2017, I filed Form 210 for rental income for September only
- At the beginning of January 2108, I filed Form 210 for rental income Oct - Dec. 2017.
- In January 2108, I also filed Form 210 for imputed income for July - August 2017, although I could have filed it any time in 2018.

My imputed income for July and August 2017 (62 days) was calculated like this:

valor catastral x 1.1% x (62/365).

Note that your valor catastral multiplier may be 1.1. or 2%. See details in the FAQ: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=27897&p=260418#p260418

Hope that help.

- Eric S.


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