Solar water heating Wind power?

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jkm
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Solar water heating Wind power?

Postby jkm » Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:16 pm

I think solar water heating is quite easy. but has anyone successfully used wind power to supplement electricity?

Any info that can be give would be appreciated.

Thanks jkm

Grouser
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Postby Grouser » Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:35 pm

Not personally used wind power but have done a little exploration as to its feasibility in the UK. It would seem you are talking about an investment of around £4.000 for a generator that will produce a reasonable amount of power. On top of that you will have the cost of building a tower for it and hooking it up to your existing wiring. The other factor you might want to consider is noise and how many days a year you have enough wind to power the thing. Lots more info on the net.
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silver
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Postby silver » Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:35 pm

wind power to supplement electricity the electric company are popping them up all over the place..lots of wind..but for personal use they are expensive to set up..and I doubt if you will find a company that do it in Spain...if you DIY (you can find plans on line) most of the equipment would have to be imported.
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jkm
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Postby jkm » Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:01 pm

Thanks there is a firm in the uk that are doing them for £1495 fitted allegedly provide 30% of your power needs.They install them on poles attached to the building i will ask and see if they would ship to Spain.


Regards jkm

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Postby Grouser » Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:12 pm

Sounds very reasonable if their facts and figures are correct and they are talking about an average household with all the normal domestic appliances. Do bear in mind the point about noise, particularly if it is attached to your house. Also what happens to the power generated when you are not using it? If you go ahead let us know how it works out.
Good luck.
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jkm
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Postby jkm » Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:21 pm

Thanks Grouser will do.
A couple of web sit addresses to look at if your interested.

***.windsave.com

***.rmsolar.com

Of course you replace the *s with www.

Regards jkm

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Postby olive » Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:43 pm

Don't B&Q sell turbines now in the UK?

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Postby Sandramay » Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:18 pm

Yes, B&Q are advertising a Windsave Wind turbine WS100 for £1498. Price includes survey and installation by an approved engineer. Doubt this includes travel to Spain though.......... even if you do serve a chilled San Miguel :)
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silver
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Postby silver » Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:15 pm

Windsave Wind turbine WS100 for £1498
wow..That sounds really cheap..do you know how much electrisity you get from it????
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jkm
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Postby jkm » Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:34 pm

Silver it says on the leaflet will save up to a third on the average UK household electricity bill specification below.

WS1000 PRODUCT SPECIFICATION



AC Input (Mains): 230 Volts (nominal) ac, @ 50Hz



Power Input (Mains): 6 Watts (Note 2)



Rated Power Output: 1kW @ rated wind speed (Note 3)



Rated Wind Speed: 12.5 m/s (Note 8)



Cut-in Wind Speed: 3.5 to 5 m/s @ hub height (Note 8)



Cut-out Wind Speed: 14 m/s @ hub height (Note 8)



Reference Extreme Wind Speed: 35 m/s @ hub height



Operating Temperature Range, Generator: -15C through +40C (Note 4)



Weight, Generator System: 25kgs (Note 5)



Weight, Plug ‘n’ SaveTM: 11kgs



Dimensions, Generator Assembly: 320mm long x 150mm wide x 110mm deep support shaft



Swept Area, Blade Assembly: 2.4m2



Swept Diameter, Blade Assembly: 1.75m



Dimensions, Plug ‘n’ SaveTM: 535mm long x 315mm wide, 130mm deep



Noise, Generator System: LAeq=52 dBA 5m behind turbine @ 7m/s gusting

LAeq=33 dBA 5m behind turbine @ 5m/s gusting



Operating Speed Range of Blades: 100 – 1050 rpm (Note 6)



Degree of Protection, Generator Assembly: IP54



Degree of Protection, Plug ‘n’ SaveTM: IP30



Expected Safe Life: 10 years (Note 7)



General references above relate to BS EN 61400 part 2

Design and specifications are subject to change without notice.





NOTES:

1. Values are nominal only, as slight variations will be

present from unit to unit.



2. Power consumption of the Plug ‘n’ SaveTM unit in

‘stand by’ mode



3. Typically 12.5 m/s wind speed at the Propeller Blade

Assembly is equivalent to an output of 1kW from the

Plug ‘n’ SaveTM unit.



4. At altitudes < 1000m above sea level.



5. Excludes Support Pole & Brackets.



6. Useful power output range.



7. This is the expected safe life of the product, however

the actual life will depend on the conditions the system

has been subjected to. (e.g. Continual exposure to

heavy salt water conditions will reduce life expectancy.)

It should also be noted that the Expected Safe Life

period is NOT the stated warranty period of the

product.



8. Wind speed figures assume a steady value, as gusts to

this figure will not always produce maximum output.


Hope this helps Regards jkm

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silver
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Postby silver » Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:20 am

thanks for the info jkm
sounds ok but only lasts 10 years :cry: and is used for backup...wonder how much more it would cost for equipment needed to fit batteries...
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Postby jazper » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:01 am

But what does the Plug'n'save do? Sounds a bit like backup.

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Postby Grouser » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:38 pm

Here is a link to the page on wind generators and also solar panels if anyone wants more details.
http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/nav.j ... s&zone=all
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Postby Grouser » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:04 pm

Having looked at it further, have to agree with Silver, ten years lifespan is not very good. At that rate you would have to be knocking £150 a year off your bill just to pay for it which is likely to be stretching it a bit. Also I wonder what sort of carbon footprint goes into making it?
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Tom W
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Postby Tom W » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:08 pm

IMHO - I would think they are being a bit ambitious with 12.5 m/s when giving the output figure! We are on top of a hill in Scotland, the wind capital of Europe apparently, but the average windspeed here is 7.0 m/s.
To make matters worse the calculation is one of those wierd ones from school maths that I can't remember the name of, whereby every extra 1 m/s multiplies the output by a vast degree so it's probaly an awful lot less than 1kw.

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Postby Valencia_Paul » Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:47 pm

There is some information on the plug'n'save feature on this website:

http://www.wellieboot.co.uk/wind_information.html

I reckon that if the unit is rated 1 Kw at 27 mph (12 m/s) wind, you would probably only get about 150 to 200 watts output as a continuous yearly average. Obviously it depends on how windy your location is and where you mount the generator relative to other things such as trees, adjacent buildings etc.

I don't think most local councils (UK) would actually allow you to fit one of these. David Cameron has obtained permission from his local council but even then they want to measure the noise output after 6 months use and I think he has to foot the fairly hefty bill for this test.

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Postby McT » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:19 am

I believe that in the windier parts of the UK, a 'personal' wind generator might just about break even over a long period (more than 10 years though). However a major factor in the the calculation is that in the UK, the National Grid is required to buy surplus electricity from you, so during a windy night your meter runs backwards. (That was poetic licence - I don't really know what the mechanism is for buying electricity from you!) Anyway, I would be surprised if Sevillana-Endesa would be interested in your extra watts and that would probably tip the equation over the point where there is any hope of recouping the capital investment.

BTW, Tom - exponential was the word you were looking for!

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Postby Valencia_Paul » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:02 pm

Yes - you are talking about a grid tie system where you sell excess electricity back to the utility company. Trouble is they charge you about 9 pence a unit in the UK but only pay you about 1.5 pence a unit for your surplus!!

Let's face it - Electricity companies serve their boards of directors and shareholders and they want to sell more electricity to you, not less.

Tom W
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Postby Tom W » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:28 pm

Thanks - McT. That was the word I was dredging my addled mind for!

Also, on the price question - for at least 5 years there has been talk of forcing the power companies to except "nett metering" (pay the same rate as they charge) but it's never going to happen.

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Postby Grouser » Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:59 pm

I have just discovered some more info on the cheap wind generator. Apparently it makes about 40 decibels of noise in use. this was described as the equivalent of a couple of people walking past your house having a conversation. Don't think I'd be too happy about that 24/7. B&Q estimate it would pay for itself in seven to eight years. Another and probably slightly more objective estimate is twenty eight years. As the thing has a life expectancy of about ten years a better course would be to buy energy saving bulbs, stop leaving things on standby and switch everything off you're not using. You will probably save about as much energy. Go for solar water heating and wait for photo voltaics and wind generation technology to improve.
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