Can they tax you after death?

Information and questions about the Law in Spain and Andalucia.
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fyfin
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Can they tax you after death?

Postby fyfin » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:35 am

Can the tax office in Spain pursue a deceased person for underpaid tax in 2013. A friend whose husband died in Feb 2018, has just received a demand (she probably should have refused to sign for it) for just under €100, so not a large amount.

Obviously it was some sort of error on the tax return in 2013 as the concept states "I.R.P.F. Sanciones paralelas - 2013 perdidas reduccion 25% sancion mod 100"

She must have received something previously as it states she was notified on 29.03.19 and didn't action it. Her solicitor doesn't seem to be much help and she says she'll just pay it. The tax office have been notified previously of his death and have copies of the death certificate. She has paid other taxes due as a result of income up to Feb 2018 when he died.

Firstly, I thought that they could only go back 4 years and can they pursue a widow for his debt.

Maybe someone has had a similar experience and knows the answer.
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Manchesteral
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Re: Can they tax you after death?

Postby Manchesteral » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:11 am

I don't know the answer but for €100.00 I would just pay it !

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fyfin
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Re: Can they tax you after death?

Postby fyfin » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:47 am

The worry is though that they could keep doing it for every other year as well. They seem to be concentrating on old tax returns especially from UK citizens. I've had my return from 2014 queries and they quoted the figures supplied by HMRC which were on my P60 so they are definitely liaising with them.
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elusive
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Re: Can they tax you after death?

Postby elusive » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:00 pm

Yeah i know of lots of people that hacienda are questioning over 2014. Most of the ones i know of are nothing more than fishing expeditions wanting huge amounts off crown pensions and money off people that werent even tax resident that year. I guess because of the exchane of info act that came in hacienda are hoping people pay up regardless.

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fyfin
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Re: Can they tax you after death?

Postby fyfin » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:26 am

Yes we know of a few here in Almeria. They had to prove they were not resident.
Unfortunately due to bad advice 're annuities I had to pay tax and interest for 3 years that were wrong. I've been fined as well but so far they haven't sent the payment slip but I doubt they've had a change of heart.
I can't believe it's right to pursue someone who's deceased though but his widow should probably have refused to accept it.
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Re: Can they tax you after death?

Postby El Cid » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:52 am

Can I ask what was wrong with the advice you were given about annuities? Most of the problems I have heard about are where gestors dont allow the big discounts that are available on qualifying annuities with a result that too much tax is paid rather than too little.

Sid

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Re: Can they tax you after death?

Postby fyfin » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:31 am

Mine was the opposite. The tax advisor, who was English, assured me that ALL annuities qualified for the reduced rate of tax i.e. only a percentage taxed depending on when you started to receive payments. It was only when she left, 2 years later to go back to England, and someone took over that the problem started.
The person who took over was not English, and had no experience of annuities, so went to the local tax office to ask for advice and they decided in their wisdom that ALL annuities should be taxed as pension income.
Of course, that is wrong as well, and having by now delved into it myself, I realised that only those pension annuities, where your company made payments into it, should be taxed as pension income, I challenged their ruling as I had one annuity that was definitely my own contributions only. The other 3 unfortunately I could do nothing about as they had been set up via my employer and linked to company pension schemes .
It was a devil of a job, took nearly a year, but I got it agreed as I had evidence in the form of a letter in Spanish from Aviva stating that it was entirely my money that went to purchase the one annuity.
The others had some company input and were turned down point blank.
My annoyance was that, even though it may have not been correct, I don't believe it would have been challenged, had someone not stupidly asked the tax office for advice. AND not advised me firstly what they were going to do as I might have swiftly moved to another Gestor lol
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Re: Can they tax you after death?

Postby peteroldracer » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:02 am

"My annoyance was that, even though it may have not been correct, I don't believe it would have been challenged, had someone not stupidly asked the tax office for advice. AND not advised me firstly what they were going to do as I might have swiftly moved to another Gestor lol"
isn't this a bit like all the hooha about VAR in that awful game football - the clubs do not like having to obey the laws now they are being found out?
Fom Sid's info on tax I could see that my private pension was not qualified. The tragedy is that the professional standards of tax gestors/solicitors are so low that clients will be wrongly advised - and incorrect returns made on their behalf - and charged for this dubious service.
The law should be changed so that any professional adviser is liable for any costs levied because of their wrong advice.
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Re: Can they tax you after death?

Postby El Cid » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:12 am

The moral there is never to go near the Tax office as it usually results in disaster due to their incompetence and lack of knowledge (or wrong interpretation) of their own rules. Sadly, many gestors are just as bad when it comes to foreigners and the different scenarios that apply.

A recent example of this is their treatment of UK Government pensions. A friend with a teachers pension went to the tax office and was categorically told that the only pensions that qualified were police pensions. Another friend was told that his govt pension did not have to be declared at all. This happened three years running so the potential tax bill if they change their mind is very big.

In fact, the rule about having to take these pensions into account has been the law since well before the latest version of the tax treaty (which merely clarified that point). Apparently, some years ago a senior tax official in Madrid decreed that they should not be declared and everyone followed his incorrect advice for years.

Sid

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fyfin
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Re: Can they tax you after death?

Postby fyfin » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:22 am

I couldn't agree more Sid. I see it here all the time.
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Re: Can they tax you after death?

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:46 am

It is best to ring the helpline. You do not have to reveal your identity and you do not have to follow the advice. However, you will need to speak Spanish. Record the call if possible so that you have evidence of their reply.


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