Autonomo and pensions

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fincalospinos
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Autonomo and pensions

Postby fincalospinos » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:45 am

Does anyone know what is the minimum number of years you have to pay Autonomo in order to claim all or a part of a Spanish pension ?
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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby morlandg » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:14 am

I qualified with 12 months.

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fincalospinos
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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby fincalospinos » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:23 am

Are you saying that you only paid Autonomo for one year, and then qualified for a Spanish pension ? Do you receive the full pension or just a percentage ?
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olive
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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby olive » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:01 pm

My understanding from what I have seen on threads on forums is:

when you retire you go to the last Eu country that you worked in and they calculate your pension based on info you supply on the countries in the Eu that you worked in. I do not know how that works if as is likely , your retiring age in the Uk is different to retiring age in Spain.For example 67 in Uk and 65 and a half in Spain. If in your life, you only worked in Spain then I believe the minimum qualifying period is fifteen years.

If you worked say 30 in the Uk and 10 in Spain then you qualify for an "EU pension". This is calculated at a rate for the Uk element and a rate for the Spanish element and I understand that it might be slightly more than the two seperately. That is the "EU rate" element. A person with the username gus lopez, seems well up on the subject. I am sure he posted info on the subject including website links somewhere.

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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby morlandg » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:50 pm

I worked as autonomo and paid into the social security for 12 months in 2003/4
I applied for and gained my UK state pension in 2012 when I was 65. I was throughout this process and still am resident in spain.
Subsequently ( I think the following year) I read on the internet that anyone working in more than one state within the EU would qualify for a state pension in each of those states subject to working a qualifying period of 12 months and of course attaining the state pension age.
I went to the INSS office in Calle Tore Tore in Torre del Mar and asked for a printout of my working record. Amazingly it showed I had worked for exactly 12 months. At which point I visited a Gestoria in Vinuela and asked him to apply for a spanish state pension. After several months I received a notification informing me that my application had been successful and that my pension would be backdated to the date of application. I received a notice only this week that my pension for 2018 would be increased by 0.25% to some 25.14 per month.
BTW - I receive a full UK state pension.
I hope this helps. Graham

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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby markwilding » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:17 pm

Thanks morlandg, Very interesting,
As far as I’m aware you must pay into the system for 15 years to be able to receive the full pension.
Having said that, it’s quite a complicated system and I cannot get my head around how it works.
I find it easier to treat it as a sort of private insurance and keep paying even when I not receiving income in the summer.

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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby Manchesteral » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:04 pm

I have never heard of aN "eu pension" My cousin who is British but lived and worked in Sweden for many years applied for his pension through the Swedish pension service.
Eventually he was awarded a British pension (based on sterling) and a Swedish pension (Swedish Kroner) he now receives, every 28 days, a pension from England paid to his Swedish bank and automatically converted to Kroner, plus his Swedish pension, they are two separate entities and paid separately at different times, can anyone enlighten me as to what an "eu pension is ??

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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby El Cid » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:11 pm

The only “EU” pension I can think of is that given to members of the EU commission in Brussels and possibly MEPs.

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olive
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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby olive » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:10 am

My fault. When I put the phrase in “. “. I thought it might be misconstrued. I still cannot think of a better way to express the concept. “ cumulative worked in European states calculated pension “ perhaps although that would suggest none EU countries are included.

While we have the dialogue going, has anyone got info or a link to Workers here in Spain retirement ages please? I presume the system is the same as in the UK i.e. nothing happens until the individual starts the ball rolling as they may wish to continue working and claim their Pension(s) later.

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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby Manchesteral » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:21 am

As far as I know Olive you will receive your pension at the due time but you can continue working if you wish, and as I understand it if you are of pensionable age and continue working your tax and social security liabilities are much lower, El Cid or Beachcomber will probably have more extensive knowledge of this.

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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby Gasman » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:03 pm

Morlandg and Manchesteral are both correct. The concept of the EU pension is that any years working within various EU countries are to be considered by each of those countries when you get round to applying for your pension (it is usually up to you to apply, rather than for them to offer). Thus you do not get a combined pension, no - but you can get small pensions from various countries, and at different years, whenever the retirement age is applicable for you in that country. If you qualify for a full pension, eg UK, then you get that full pension, as well as any for lesser time periods from other countries. So even if you have only worked a short time in one EU country, you should apply (always via the country where you worked last !!!) stating your work record for all the countries so that your qualifying years in the EU can be taken into account. Whether you are autonomo or salaried makes no difference, it is paying into the Social Security system which qualifies you.

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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby Gloops » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:28 pm

Has anyone applied for a Spanish pension recently? if so what documentation did you have to provide, birth certificate, marriage certificate etc and did they need to be apostle sealed? I have been told that any certificates need to be apostle sealed within three months of the application. Any information would be appreciated.

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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby Gasman » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:04 pm

Goops
As we know all officialdom in Spain tends to have different definitions of what paperwork you need for what ... Our local INSS Seguridad Social office required as a minimum the form that you can get from the virtual office on line INSS applying for a pension. Take note that if you have worked in the EU, and/or Britain, you need to fill in a slightly different form from the Spanish pension form, so check you find the one that refers to working in the EU.
Then when you have filled in all of that, you will find a list of required paperwork which includes
passport, NIE card for proof of residencia as EU citizen, Marriage certificate if relevant,passport and NIE for wife, dependant childrens ID if you have any, other dependants .... your own birth certificate, Vida Laborial of work time spent in Spain which you can also get on line, Social Security numbers which you put on the form for work in the EU countries (UK tax number). At this stage nothing needs to be translated. You may or may not need a Padron cert from your town hall, issued within 3 months. If you have the equivalent of the Vida Laborial in other countries, eg Releve de Carriere in France, or E105 from UK, give them a copy of that too ...
Not quite sure what you mean by Apostle Sealed .... Just take originals and they should copy anything they require - they will be impressed if you can give copies !
Spanish pension - simple, and they know all about it.
EU pensions, different countries - in Malaga area you should be OK and they will know more about it than you!! Here in the sticks, we have to go armed and ready - basically you have to apply for your pensions FROM and through the country that you last worked in, unless there are unusual circumstances - so if you worked in Spain last, you apply through the INSS and THEY contact your other countries Social Services/Pensions Services. However, if you think there is a delay, you can always contact the other contries, eg UK, to make sure the application is A-OK and going forward.

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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby markwilding » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:22 pm

Another question, can I start claiming my UK pension when I reach the age of retirement, which I believe to be 66 or do I have to wait for it until I am 67 and can retire here in Spain"?

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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby olive » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:11 pm

That is the essence of my question on the 5th.

Does anyone have a link to retirement ages and changes to forthcoming years for Spain.

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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby chrissiehope » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:23 am

"Not quite sure what you mean by Apostle Sealed " - I think the OP meant 'apostiled' which is an official stamp that validates a document from UK, in Spain
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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:16 am

markwilding wrote:Another question, can I start claiming my UK pension when I reach the age of retirement, which I believe to be 66 or do I have to wait for it until I am 67 and can retire here in Spain"?


The pension you receive is determined by the country paying it. So in this case you get your UK pension on UK terms and conditions regardless of where you live (ignoring the indexing subject for now). So if you were living in the UK and reach retirement age you would receive a pension, therefore you will receive it at the same time if you are living in Spain. Put it another way...if you had a twin brother and you worked and paid NI in exactly the same way as him. You retire in UK he retires in Spain. You will get exactly the same pension as him on the same day.

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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:27 am

Gasman wrote:Morlandg and Manchesteral are both correct. The concept of the EU pension is that any years working within various EU countries are to be considered by each of those countries when you get round to applying for your pension (it is usually up to you to apply, rather than for them to offer). Thus you do not get a combined pension, no - but you can get small pensions from various countries, and at different years, whenever the retirement age is applicable for you in that country. If you qualify for a full pension, eg UK, then you get that full pension, as well as any for lesser time periods from other countries. So even if you have only worked a short time in one EU country, you should apply (always via the country where you worked last !!!) stating your work record for all the countries so that your qualifying years in the EU can be taken into account. Whether you are autonomo or salaried makes no difference, it is paying into the Social Security system which qualifies you.


There is an added benefit of having worked a short time in an EU country. In some countries you need to have a minimum noumber of years of contributions to qualify for a pension. So say you lived in country X all your life and paid NI for only 3 years. Imagine they had a rule that you have to have a minimum of 10 years contributions to get a state pension. Then you would get no pension. However if you live outside the country at retirement age you can qualify for a pension. Albeit very small pension ratioed in line with your years of contributions. So in other words the minimum contributions rule won't apply.

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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby Gasman » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:07 pm

The whole process really is a bit of a pain for folk who have worked in several EU countries, under different regimes, eg social security from the state, local occupational schemes, special ones for self-employed ... So for instance
Retirement due at 63 France with 6 years - reduced state pension, reduced self-employment scheme pension, occupational pension from place of work - apply via INSS, spain about 4 months before due time to get the ball rolling.
Retirement age at 65 in UK and Spain go through the whole lot again for UK basic pension, depending on how many years you have got, minimum now 36, I believe, any lump-sum plus occupation scheme from work, etc, and they may use the same form at INSS to do your spanish pension, say for 6 years employment ....
Retirement age elsewhere, eg at 67, yes you already have your other pensions, but you should turn up at the INSS AGAIN at 67 or thereabouts to make your claim for that one too.
NOTE you can defer earlier pensions if you want to, and apply for them all at a time suitable to you after the due date, and you may even get slightly more pennies, but on balance, it seems more viable to get the money due, at due time, rather than wait.

You end up with lots of small amounts coming from several different entities and different countries, but it all adds up. As Paddy points out, even if you dont have the full requirement for a pension in one country, the other years in other EU countries are taken into account to give you a pro-rata amount, and recognition of the status of pensioner.

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Re: Autonomo and pensions

Postby metalmonkey » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:29 pm

I have been in receipt of my UK state pension for 6 years. At the same time I worked self employed for the last 5 years paying autonomo. Would I be entitled to any pension for these 5 years? Many thanks
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