Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

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Paddy Pumpkin
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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:41 am

Devils Advocate wrote:So are you saying register as a student even you are not a student, or setting up a bogus business in answer to the original posters question? Isn't that advocating fraud?
I just hope the poster gets better advice than that from somewhere that solves his problem. I also wish his wife all the very best and a healthy and long lived future.


Are you looking to pick an argument or looking to assist somebody with their problem?

Student. What is the definition of a student? In the case of registration for residency in Spain it is being registered as a student at an approved institution on the day you go to the Policia Nacional to give in the paperwork. Nothing says you have to actually attend class to be a student, but you can for a few days to help you Spanish and kill two birds with one stone.

Autonomo. The definition in this case is being registered on the Censo de Actividades Economicos. I have had two businesses in Spain that have never been able to carry out a single transaction due to not getting planning permission so you can start a business tomorrow it is not your fault if you never get a customer.


There is nothing fraudulent about either of these.

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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby Devils Advocate » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:41 am

So why doesn't everybody at any age do this then when they move to Spain and save themselves a lot of money? I've heard this and similar advice given many times over the years and have been baffled by it

If you think it's all above board and will work out for the OP then fair enough, you obviously know best.

As for picking an argument, no I wasn't. Although if you want to turn it in to one I'd not actually lose much sleep.

You have your views and I have mine and using back door ways to achieve benefits other genuine cases won't use annoys me.
Property owner in Andalucia since 2002. How time flies.

elusive
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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby elusive » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:03 am

The going self employed route was mentioned on other sites as something to do for a year inorder to then after having one year of residencia you could then apply for the convenio especial (changed now in some areas that you dont have to be resident for at least a year to apply) The first year or so of being self employed gave discounted rates but there would be no point doing it longterm as the contributions you pay as time goes on get very expensive far more than the charge for the convenio.the convenio has only been in place a few years or less? So it was only a option in the last few years interm of going self employed first.and now due to the royal decree re healthcare it has been stopped in andalucia altogether

Free healthcare wasnt a benefit it was a legal right even before the new royal decree it was just the INSS were refusing people probably at the behest of the old conservative goverment inorder to save money.
Last edited by elusive on Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gasman
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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby Gasman » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:23 am

Surely the simplest solution is for the OP to register himself, and his wife then as his dependant is also therefore covered.

El Cid
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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby El Cid » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:37 pm

Paddy Pumpkin wrote:
Student. What is the definition of a student? In the case of registration for residency in Spain it is being registered as a student at an approved institution on the day you go to the Policia Nacional to give in the paperwork. Nothing says you have to actually attend class to be a student, but you can for a few days to help you Spanish and kill two birds with one stone.


That won't work as students must also have comprehensive medical insurance.

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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:59 pm

Students can register using EHIC as proof of medical cover

http://www.residenteseuropeos.com/admin ... uizaEN.pdf

Paddy Pumpkin
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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:46 pm

Gasman wrote:Surely the simplest solution is for the OP to register himself, and his wife then as his dependant is also therefore covered.

Yes but the OP has to prove that he can support his wife financially (the easy bit) and also provide healthcare (back to square 1)

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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:59 pm

Devils Advocate wrote:So why doesn't everybody at any age do this then when they move to Spain and save themselves a lot of money? I've heard this and similar advice given many times over the years and have been baffled by it

If you think it's all above board and will work out for the OP then fair enough, you obviously know best.

As for picking an argument, no I wasn't. Although if you want to turn it in to one I'd not actually lose much sleep.

You have your views and I have mine and using back door ways to achieve benefits other genuine cases won't use annoys me.


You won't save money...the costs of setting up Autonomo or paying college fees will be more than 1000 EUR so more than the cost of medical insurance.

Whilst I agree with you about getting benefits you are entitled to via the back door sometimes needs must to navigate the bureaucracy of Spain. I have a friend, EU citizen, living in Spain 15 years, he got married to another EU citizen and she couldn't get residency because she couldn't sign on healthcare system (even though her husband is on the healthcare system through paying Seguridad Social as an autonomo). She wasn't allowed to sign on because she was not registered to live in Spain...around in circles we go. In the end her husband took her on as an employee then she was allowed to get residency because she was employed. Then she went and registered on healthcare system through her own Seguridad Social contributions. Once all done she lost her job, but remains on healthcare system, which by law she was entitled to do for free in the first place!

There are numerous personal occasions (not just in Spain) that we can all recall where bureaucracy stops us getting what we are legally entitled to...so sometimes we just have to play the game.

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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby elusive » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:20 pm

Gasman wrote:Surely the simplest solution is for the OP to register himself, and his wife then as his dependant is also therefore covered.


O.P isnt a O.A.P so they would be in the same position just the O.P trying to get state healthcare instead of his wife.unless hes working then its just as difficult for him.

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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby Manchesteral » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:16 pm

You do not need to be resident in order to get healthcare, it's very simple, you need your passport and an ehic card (they didn't even ask for mine, just the passport) go to you nearest local Centre de Salud and register, theoretically you are entitled to the same treatment as a native born Spaniard, you can even do it as a holiday maker.
You do NOT need residencia, just go to the health centre and register, take a good (or local born) Spanish speaker with you and it takes just a few minutes. This is what I have done and I am not resident !!

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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby Manchesteral » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:18 pm

Financial benefits of course are a whole different ball game!

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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby El Cid » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:14 pm

Your suggestion is only a temporary solution until they become resident. They need a solution that enables them to get residency which you cannot do with an EHIC.

Sid

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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby elusive » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:23 am

Ehic is for holiday makers. People on long hols are advised to registar at the local hospital.so if they need any treatment within three months they dont have the hassle when turning up for treatment. There have been cases of residents been registared on a temp basis at their local hospitals with their ehic card and then getting a big bill from the uk.as they are seen to be using the ehic illegally

The o.p could try registaring as a non resident and then if they are put on the system permanantly use it to apply for residence but its very hit and miss

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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby Manchesteral » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:38 pm

El Cid wrote:How do you arrive at that conclusion? Residencia is a legal requirement and you won't get it if you don't have health cover. Yes, in theory, the new law gives free health care to all residents, but if you haven't registered you cannot get it - catch 22 again!

Sid


Residencia is NOT a legal requirement, I am not resident, Nor do I have any form of residencia, I am a frequent visitor to Las Palmas and I went with my Canarian born and bred friend who guided me through it !! I don't know how many more people are going to come here disputing this !
You go to Centro de Salud with passport and ehic, register and that's it or at least that's what I successfully did.
As a matter of interest I know of two people who visit here regularly, one german, one English who even get kidney dialisys treatment when staying here!
I think the conclusion here is the same as in many different areas of Spain, they interpret the law as they see it !!

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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby Manchesteral » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:41 pm

Paddy Pumpkin wrote:Original Posters answer to that question.....

'''We are bot registered on the NHS in the UK but not on any benefits. My wife so far has no symptoms '''

There is nothing preventing setting up a business and then closing it once formalities to register for residence are complete.


This action will not entitle you to benefits, you don't get anything out unless you've paid a substantial amount into the system, years !!

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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby elusive » Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:09 pm

Whats your status manchesteral. Im abit confused as to what stand point you are coming from. You seem to be confusing the issue as what im getting from your posts is you come here on frequent holidays and nothing more. If thats the case then yes you can registar at the hospital with your ehic to cover you for any problems you have while on holiday. Also for your friend they are entiltled to use a ehic for ongoing treatment.but that is only for residents of other countries on holiday in spain.thats totally different interms to what the op is asking about.Its a legal requirement to apply for residencia after you have been in spain for 90 days with an intent to make spain your habitual residence. Its not a requirement if you are on a 4 month winter holiday for example.

The O.P isnt looking for benefits they were been advised to go self employed inorder to gain their healthcare which they could then use when applying for residencia .if this is succesful they could then close their "business" and keep the healthcare. Although i wonder if that might be an issue as they gained it as self employed rather than under the new residence royal decree. Might they have to reapply as residents. All abit of a minefield.quite a few non residents have applied and been given healthcare. I dont believe the actual law says you must be a legal resident to get it.it covers everyone in the country

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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby El Cid » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:17 pm

Manchesteral wrote:
Residencia is NOT a legal requirement, !


Once again, you are missing the point of the OPs post. They want to get residency. What you are suggesting is not going to help them. You WILL NOT get residency based on an EHIC card.

Out of interest, just how much time do you spend in Spain in a year relying on your EHIC card?

Sid

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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby Manchesteral » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:41 pm

El Cid, perhaps collectively we are missing the point, I will try to clarify.As far as I am aware you do not need residency to obtain medical treatment whilst on Spanish soil. I understand and acknowledge that the process of residencia is a different thing, my whole point is that you don't need residencia in order to get hospital treatment, it's a separate issue, Sorry I don't know how to make my point clearer.

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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby Manchesteral » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:44 pm

elusive wrote:Whats your status manchesteral. Im abit confused as to what stand point you are coming from. You seem to be confusing the issue as what im getting from your posts is you come here on frequent holidays and nothing more. If thats the case then yes you can registar at the hospital with your ehic to cover you for any problems you have while on holiday. Also for your friend they are entiltled to use a ehic for ongoing treatment.but that is only for residents of other countries on holiday in spain.thats totally different interms to what the op is asking about.Its a legal requirement to apply for residencia after you have been in spain for 90 days with an intent to make spain your habitual residence. Its not a requirement if you are on a 4 month winter holiday for example.

The O.P isnt looking for benefits they were been advised to go self employed inorder to gain their healthcare which they could then use when applying for residencia .if this is succesful they could then close their "business" and keep the healthcare. Although i wonder if that might be an issue as they gained it as self employed rather than under the new residence royal decree. Might they have to reapply as residents. All abit of a minefield.quite a few non residents have applied and been given healthcare. I dont believe the actual law says you must be a legal resident to get it.it covers everyone in the country


You have answered your own question, I understand that residency is a different thing, the point I'm making is that hospital treatment is available to anyone falling ill on Spanish soil and that you can register without being resident, sorry I can't make my point clearer.

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Re: Cancer Healthcare - Uninsurable

Postby Manchesteral » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:48 pm

I spend roughly six months of the year in Las Palmas or just under without breaking the tax laws, usually split into 3 two month periods or 2 three month periods, I would love to stay longer but I'm not prepared to surrender my tax status in the U K !


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