OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

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olive
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OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

Postby olive » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:09 am

Had a bit of trouble wording the Subject.

For years we have had the mother in law come and visit us several times a year - sometimes for a few months- once for five months as she was ill here. She is a typical old OAP with limited mobility, a pharmacy of pills but sound in mind.

Of late she has got to the stage where she would be better off with permanent company (she currently has carer visits each day in the UK). The solution we feel is for her to live with us but go back to the Uk to escape Spains hayfever season and also the height of the summer as the heat causes problems.

So I am looking for others experience of this sort of situation where they have a relative come and live with them for longer periods of time.

Tax. Not complicated at all but if she was here more than half the year would she have to do a Spanish return? She would obviously keep her modest UK house and it would be unoccupied.

Doctors and repeat prescriptions. We found that on the various occasions where she has needed hospital/doctor treatment e.g. broken foot twice, chest infection. The Spanish health service couldn't have done more. They even issued her with a temp medical card for the 5month stretch. One concern is getting repeat prescriptions for the raft of UK tablets she is inevitably on. Obviously we can talk to her UK doctor and ask but what we don't want to have happen is for them to say "goodbye"

Anyone have any experience they can share or useful comments please?

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Re: OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

Postby katy » Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:30 pm

I am surprised no one has answered this :think:

If she stays more than 183 days then she would have to register. To be able to register she would have to have an S1 to prove medical care. After 6 months she would have to make a tax return. I don't know any way around it except to do what many do, don't register and use the health card. The only problem with using the health card long term is if an operation is needed and there is a long waiting list they will tell you to get the operation in your own country as, quite rightly they assume you would be back in the UK anyway. This is what happens at the CDS hospital but it could be different in your area.

Someone more knowledgable than I may come up with a loophole.

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Re: OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

Postby katy » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:36 am

Just been corrected on this, seems you have to register for residency after 90 days under new rules!

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Enrique
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Re: OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

Postby Enrique » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:52 am

Hi katy,
Can you post the link for your last post.......thanks
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Re: OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

Postby katy » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:11 am

Haven't got a link, someone told me, is that wrong too :think: I will have a look.

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Re: OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

Postby El Cid » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:22 am

You have to sign on to the register of foreigners after 90 days. That has nothing to do with tax residency which is where the 183 days comes from.

The snag will be that she will have to have proof of income and adequate private health cover. The money isn't the issue, but the health care is.

Lots of people spend almost half the year in Spain and they don't bother to register as, in theory, they would have to deregister when they went back to the UK. That clearly would be a waste of everyones time.

It seems to me that the best solution is for her to effectively move to Spain permanently, but with long trips back to the UK. She could then get an S1 form from the UK DWP and that would entitle her to full health cover in Spain. She can then apply to the UK for an EHIC health card that would cover her for any treatment when she was in the UK "on holiday".

She would have to do a Spanish tax return for the first year, but if she only has the UK state pension it is unlikely that she would pay any tax.

Sid

olive
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Re: OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

Postby olive » Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:38 pm

Thanks for the replies.

I can see tow issues with "permanently moving to Spain and going back to the Uk as a visitor.

Firstly Healthcare. She would have to sever her links and understanding of the local UK GP and health service and in effect start again with scant knowledge of the language. She does already have a wealth of good experiences in our local doctors and local hospital. When you get to be in your 90's you tend to have a raft of underlying health issues. I could see that being a problem.

Secondly Tax issues. By becoming resident here would there become inheritence tax issues that wouldn't be present in the UK? Have to be realistic talking about someone in their nineties.

I am beginning to think it will have to be stints of up to 89 days at a time. Any limit to how many periods of up to 89 days a year? One issue that would have to be addressed with that plan would be repeat prescriptions for Statins and the like. Not insurmountable - I guess.

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Re: OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

Postby El Cid » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:05 pm

If she is happy to become a frequent visitor on holiday then her UK EHIC would cover her for and normal or ongoing treatment needed. If she is already happy with the local facilities that would be a decent option, leaving open the option for major treatment back in the UK.

You can have as many periods of less than 90 days as you like, but remember that if, in total, she exceeds the 183 days in one calendar year, then she would become tax resident.

There are no additional IHT issues, assuming she has no property in Spain. The UK property will be liable to Spanish IHT only if left to a Spanish resident. If she was intending to leave it to you, then nothing has changed.

Sid

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Re: OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

Postby chrissiehope » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:35 pm

El Cid wrote: She can then apply to the UK for an EHIC health card that would cover her for any treatment when she was in the UK "on holiday".


If she was "permanently resident" in Spain, wouldn't she have to apply to Spain for her EHIC card ?
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Re: OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

Postby El Cid » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:20 pm

No, UK pensioners who have gone through the UK Form S1 procedure get their EHIC cards from the UK. They used to get them from INSS in Spain, but that changed a few years ago. A card issued to a UK resident cannot be used in the UK, but the cards issued to expats can be used as they are coded differently to differentiate them.

Sid

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Re: OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

Postby elusive » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:17 pm

am beginning to think it will have to be stints of up to 89 days at a time. Any limit to how many periods of up to 89 days a year? One issue that would have to be addressed with that plan would be repeat prescriptions for Statins and the like. Not insurmountable - I guess


lots of meds are available to buy over the counter which would require a prescriotion in the uk. my father buys statins over the counter here
Last edited by elusive on Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chrissiehope
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Re: OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

Postby chrissiehope » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:51 pm

Thanks Sid - hadn't realised that :oops:
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Re: OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

Postby IreneD » Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:08 pm

My OH heard on the ex-pat grapevine that there have been recent changes to the law regarding pensioners resident in Spain. This is confirmed by the article in the attached link where it says "Those who receive a UK state retirement pension and who are registered for healthcare in Europe with an S1 form will now have the same rights as UK residents to NHS treatment." I take this to mean we can go with routine issues as well as emergencies now, when we visit the UK - do you think that's right, Sid? If so, maybe that would influence your relative's decision, Olive?

http://www.onthepulse.es/new-laws-in-spain/british-expats-could-be-affected-changes-nhs-charging-regulations-150325

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Re: OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

Postby IreneD » Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:42 pm

After following the link to the source of the info. I mentioned above, (gov.uk)I think it is right!

Good news for us pensioners, I think.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-to-improve-overseas-visitors-contributions-to-nhs-care

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Re: OAP relative - 6 months here 6 in UK, implications?

Postby elusive » Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:17 pm

Good find Irene. yeah looks like O. A.Ps are covered more than just using the euro health card


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