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country boy
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Re: Twin LNB satellite

Postby country boy » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:06 pm

[quote="olive"]Hi


I am not so impressed by the lack of BBC1.2 and ITV and CH4 etc despite hours carefully setting up the dish. I do have many German channels, some Eastern European stuff etc along with Sky News, BBC worldnews and CNB. I feel a bit cheated but in the small print in the box it does say you might not get BBC1,2 etc. So I need a bigger dish or possibly a better box. The daft thing is I managed without a Tele for over twelve months but thought a few class dramas etc would be nice!!

Olive...if you are getting BBC WorldNews you are not looking at Astra 2D :(

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country boy
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Postby country boy » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:34 pm

:shock: Sorry...I meant to say BBCWorld is on Eutelsat 7East which is close to Astra 2D...you need to "Twiddle" a bit!!! :oops:

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country boy
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Postby country boy » Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:40 pm

:? Go Here: http://www.kingofsat.net/en/sat-w3a.php and see if you recognise any of your programme range :P

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Postby Beachcomber » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:13 am

There are two or three days in the spring then again in the autumn when the sun is exactly in line with the Astra satellites at 28.2ºe which is why reception is lost for a few minutes.

It could be a long time to wait to set up your dish and even then it is a bit hit and miss. If you really don't want to spend €50 or so for someone to set up your dish properly this site may be of help. It is actually directed at caravanners and refers to a Sky digibox bust should give a good indication of what you have to do to orientate your dish.

Olive, does your receiver show Network ID information. If so it should show 0002. If it shows anything else your dish is facing the wrong satellite.

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Postby El Cid » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:16 am

alisonb wrote:It says on there that if you point your dish at the sun at 10.30 (winter) or 11.30 (summer), you are pointing directly at the Astra 2 satellite.


I wish it were that simple!

There is some truth in it, but, as Beachcomber has said, it is almost impossible to get the sun in the same place as the satellite on more than a few days each year.

However you certainly can use the sun to align the angle of the dish on the east/west axis. Although the Astra satellite is "officially" at 28.2E , the actual angle and elevation depends on your location which for Lake Vinuela gives a figure 46E and an elevation of 36 degrees.

Today, near Lake Vinuela, the sun will be lined up with the Astra 2 satellite at precisely 10.23 local time.

Getting the elevation right is possible but not at the same time you set the east/west angle. One problem at this time of year is that the sun's maximum elevation is below the satellite! You need to wait until February before it gets high enough in the sky to be useful.

Still, if you can at least get the east/west angle right then you might get the elevation by trial and error.

Sid

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Azimuts y Elevaciones

Postby olive » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:23 pm

Right have had a bit of a rethink based on useful posts above!

This is what I am actually seeing via the system
Astra 2A 28.2 E LNB1 9750, LNB2 frequency 10600
Astra 1B,1C 19.2E
Hispasat 1B 30W (presumably a strong signal)
Sirius 2,3 5 E

There are about 50 possible options of satellites to "receive "from assuming you have pointed in the right direction for those you wish to receive. The above 4 were the only ones I checked during setup.

Country Boy- I didnt recognise many if any of the progs from your link. BBCWorld news is being received via Astra 2A

There isn't an option for Astra 2D but there are some spare choices which I guess could be setup if you knew what the settings are.

I have been assuming (wrongly?) that Astra 2A was the same as 2D as they both appear to be at 28.2 degrees East. Can I ask a first principles question? Is 28.2 deg E very approx one quarter of the way from South towards East? Hope so as that is what I have been working on!

My instructions booklet only has Azimuts and Elevaciones for Astra 19.2 E and Hot Bird 1 and 2 so I have not had the correct info. I live just up the camino from El Cid so will try his Lake Vinuela settings.

Heres hoping.

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Postby Beachcomber » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:56 pm

What you are seeing is what is programmed into your receiver not what the dish is pointing at. Hispasat does have a strong signal because the beam is concentrated over Spain but it is located at 30ºw which is nearly 60 degrees from Astra 2 A B and D.

Yes 28.2ºe is just over one quarter of the way between south and east.

BBC World is not transmitted from Astra 2A so this cannot be the satellite you are looking at.

Bear in mind that the angle of elevation is that of the satellite above the horizon not (unless you have a prime focus dish) the angle of the dish which will appear to point at a much lower angle because the LNB is offset.

Have you checked out the link I gave you in my last post?

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Postby olive » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:22 am

Hi Beachcomber.

yes, have tried your excellent link and the others. Erased all data and started from scratch using El Cid's data. Bingo got a large handful of really depressing(to me) shopping channels, Men and Motors, about five different Sky News's inc UK and Eire., and ITVi test transmission (looped credits of Coronation Street) so am on the right track.

In last nights painfully slow surfing, I remember seeing a link to a site that if you input your longitude and latitude it gives you the actual x degs east, Elevation and skew. Anyone know what the site is please as I now have that info to hand?

If you have a digi box, I think Mr Sullivans caravan site is excellent.

Have tried altering the skew of the LNB. Any alteration from the vertical in either direction worsens the signal. That bodes ill for a skew of 35 deg clockwise! That gave no signal at all as did 35 deg anticlockwise.

As for 50euros to set up. I would charge myself 50 euros just to come out to our house. May have to resort to it. One of the disadvantages of living in the sticks.

olive

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Postby Beachcomber » Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:28 pm

Where did you get the idea that you needed to skew the LNB by 35º? It won't be that much!

It sounds as though the frequencies for Astra 2D are not programmed into your receiver. Check here for the frequencies you need and enter them manually and don't forget to set the correct polarity, FEC (Forward Error Correction), and SR (Symbol Rate sometimes called Baud Rate). You may also need to enter the SID (Station Identifier and VPID (Video Packet Identifier). Also you may have to enter the APID (Audio Packet Identifier) for the radio stations.

If you have the channels you described you do not need to concern yourself with dish alignment (except perhaps for a bit of tweaking) because you are there.

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Postby sunnyboy » Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:30 pm

Hi Beachcomber,
The info you asked about on the www.Soleil-Satellite.Co.Uk receiver. The ITV/BBC system which works on the small 75cm dish. My receiver is labelled "soleil satellite version 3.2 enhanced tuner for Spain".

I'll ask my friend in Campo Mijas, who put me onto it in the first place, and is more technically aware, if he knows more. He bought his after the wind twice blew away his big dish and lumps of roof. Incidentally, the installation instructions about lining up with the sun was a good guide for picking a mounting place, but they did provide a little adapted spirit level for the tilt of the dish and a 'whistler' earpiece which pulled the dish onto the satellite right away.

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Postby patricia » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:48 pm

Does anyone have an address or telephone number for the person selling the smaller satellite dishes! I now have my Free to Air Echostar and the people around here are telling me I need a 2.5 meter dish! I would really like one of the smaller ones. If you cannot give out there details on the web could you send me an email :lol: many thanks Patricia

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small satellite dish

Postby alisonb » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:09 pm

[email protected]

Tel: 0034 617 808 838

I think they have an office in Malaga. Let us know how you get on. I'm hoping to go for this if it works

Their website has got maps showing the areas where the small dish will work. They say that a 75cm dish will work well inland of Granada

Alison
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Postby Beachcomber » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:06 am

They only appear to sell the receiver and LNB not the dish. They say they have a supplier in Málaga but do not give contact details.

Patricia, it should be easier to purchase a smaller dish than a large one but you will need to ensure you get the optimum match between the dish, LNB and your receiver.

If you are unable to find a supplier closer to you try Romero y Cantalejo on the Polígono el Viso in Málaga. The telephone number is 952 363167. Ask for Juan Enriquez Pacheco. The only drawback is that you will need to speak some Spanish or get someone to translate for you.

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Postby patricia » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:59 am

Thanks Beach. No I speak Spanish so that will be fine. I will give them a ring today. I can easily get to Malaga city. Unless they can come out to me to set it up. A 75cm dish will be a lot nicer than a huge great dish of 2.5!

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Postby patricia » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:03 am

Just a thought. Yes I can buy a smaller dish they sell them in Nerja, 85cm and 95cm but when I ask for a smaller dish for BBC etc, they laugh their heads of and say that I will not be able to pick up the channels. Beach can you just explain what is an LNB! just so that I know what I am talking about when I go in! 8)

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Postby spanish_lad » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:40 am

patricia wrote:Just a thought. Yes I can buy a smaller dish they sell them in Nerja, 85cm and 95cm but when I ask for a smaller dish for BBC etc, they laugh their heads of and say that I will not be able to pick up the channels. Beach can you just explain what is an LNB! just so that I know what I am talking about when I go in! 8)


LNB is the little thingy on the front of the dish, that is connected to the arm that comes out in front - the bit the cable joins to. its the gizmo that "collects" the signal from the dish and puts it down the ariel cable to your box :)
Alhaurin el Grande since ´99, working at the airport since 2011.

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Postby Beachcomber » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:10 pm

Not the words I would have used but exactly right nonetheless.:)

The LNBs are graded by the signal to noise ratio known as a 'noise figure' and could be anything from about 0,3 to 0,7 or more. Generally, the lower the figure the better (and more expensive) the LNB.

However, the match between the LNB and the dish is very important and many fly-by-night installers do not understand the reason. The dish reflects the signal back into the LNB which has an optimum focal point and if the dish and the LNB do not match some of the signal may be lost.

The best analogy is a torch shining on the dish from the position of the LNB. You could have a torch with a narrow beam which only covers a part of the dish or it could have a wide beam that spills over the edges of the dish. The optimum performance would be gained if the circumference of the beam of the torch lined up exactly with the circumference of the dish.

This is very difficult to achieve because, obviously, the beam from the satellite is invisible but it is important because the signal from Astra 2D is very weak and needs to be maximised.

Although situated in one of the back streets of the Polígono el Viso in an unimposing industrial unit Romero y Cantelejo have extensive workshop facilities and a number of highly qualified technicians and I would disappointed if they were unable to be of some assistance to you.

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Postby patricia » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:14 pm

I have taken all that in and will let you know how I get on when I go down next week. Thanks to everyone for your replies. :lol:

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Postby patricia » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:25 pm

Did anyone have any luck with the 75cm. I phoned Romero y Cantelejo Beach but could not get hold of Juan Enriquez and they told me that they did not have any 75cm dishes. Has anyone else had any luck! :lol:

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Postby curatokid » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:40 pm

Ive speant hours up and down the ladder making adjustments to the dish with the aid of a "satfinder meter" and have now resigned to Astra 2A try as I have I can not get 2D, if anyone can suggest whether its "up a bit" or"down a bit " it might help me !!!


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