Buying a property and AFO's

[Ella102]

We are interested in purchasing a property but it needs an AFO. Vendors are wanting us to get the AFO after we buy (they will start the process) and we will adjust offer price. Anyone have experience of doing this?

[Trooperman]

There might be circumstances where the AFO cannot be granted....as far as I know, it's not a given.......and further work and other permissions may be necessary in order for the property to comply with the requirements of an AFO........and they're not a given either.

My advice? Don't do it!

I'm thinking of such things as septic tank drainage, location relevant to ancient rights of way, Natural Park authorities etc. etc.

Just speaking from experience.

BUT, whilst you say "it needs an AFO", it's perfectly possible to buy a property without such a document, but the price you pay should reflect this

[Unicorn]

Ask yourself why they want you to get the AFO after purchase. My advice would be to agree with Trooperman, it could cost you dearly. So much has been built without planning I personally wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. Town Halls can be very strict, more so these days unless you are family to the mayor (just joking!)

[DannyB]

When we bought the vendor arranged ,and paid for, the AFO. When the septic tank was declared inadequate the vendors had to replace it with a new one. I would want a very confident solicitor and a very good price before I would agree

[El Cid]

There is one potential advantage of buying without the DAFO. It does mean that you can carry out some extensions or modifications and then get them included in the DAFO when you apply for it. Once the DAFO has been issued there is no way you can make any changes.

Either option is fraught with potential problems, but that is the case when you buy any non-urban property.

Sid

[Lavanda]

What's a AFO and a DAFO?

[El Cid]

What's a AFO and a DAFO?

This explains it.
https://www.sunsetproperties-spain.com/ ... o,108.html

Sid

[Lavanda]

Excellent link. Seems like a good idea in principle but I can imagine it taking ages to get one in some places.

[ashtondav]

ah. DAFO.

My architect submitted all technical documents and photos in december 2022 for our campo house. Paid the town hall fee april 2023. The latest demand is for water purification system to be installed as, when mains water is cut off, we use water from our deposito - another €1600. Hopefully we will then be granted the long awaited DAFO.

Its been a tortuous process but we have Cava on ice for the glorious moment of success. I suppose then we will have to get the escritorio changed so the process continues...

[Wicksey]

As we don't have mains water I guess we wouldn't get one? There is no drinking water supply in this area but houses have managed to get DAFOs although most of the new places springing up around here are not legal.

The worst thing for us would be to have to install a septic tank as our pozo negro works just fine. Friends who do have one have dreadful smells because they don't seem to know how to install them properly here. One has just been deposited by the side of the track at a house across the valley. It is sitting in full sun and does not have any weeper pipes feeding from it. We just hope that whenever we sell we are lucky to find someone who doesn't want a DAFO as we do know of a couple of people who have sold without one. As stated earlier, some people are advised to wait until they've bought and done any work they want to it before applying.

[Lavanda]

We went from a pozo negro to a septic tank, Wicksey, and the only thing is that they need to be emptied every few years depending on how many people use it. We are a couple. It get’s emptied every two years. Occasionally, in the Summer, there is a slight smell for a day or two but the ventilation pipe is rather ugly. The pozo negro was completely invisible, never smelled and never needed emptying. Totally natural.

[El Cid]

We have a proper two chamber septic tank. It has never smelled and in 23 years it has never needed to be emptied.

Sid

[Wicksey]

We have a proper two chamber septic tank. It has never smelled and in 23 years it has never needed to be emptied.

Sid

Sid, you are one of the few campo dwellers on here that have a properly built house!

We have had houses with septic tanks for the past 35 years, in the UK, France and here. When they are working and installed correctly they shouldn't need emptying. The pozo negros we've had at properties here and never been a problem at all (the household pipework has been a different story though!).

The houses that we have encountered locally that do have the plastic septic tanks are absolute stinkers at times. As I say, the one across the valley we could see being 'installed' (I use that term loosely) and it was simply put down close to the track and you can see the large grey pipe from the house going into it. Being practically on the track there doesn't seem to be any exiting pipes at all. I guess they put it there for easy emptying. There was a pozo negro at that house but since it's changed hands I've seen the lorry there a couple of times emptying it. I guess they are putting all sorts of stuff down the drains and blocking them, so a new septic tank will still suffer if they don't treat it properly.

[Lavanda]

We have a strange three chamber septic tank but it definitely needs to be emptied every two years (or so). It's not a big palaver as I ring the local company that does it, they arrive with a tanker-like vehicle, do it with tubes and go. The cost is around €200. I wish I had known about the sort you have Sid, as that sounds much better.

[rickj]

Why does it “need” an AFO? If you have a house with all services working (water, electricity, septic/pozo), and the town hall is not bothering you, why would you apply for an AFO? It will cost you a lot of time and money, and your property then is known and fixed. Can’t change a thing any more. If it’s about things that were built without planning, like garages or pools, just wait 6 years, and let an architect provide you with a certificate of antiquity, and use that to update your escritura. After six years they can no longer order you to demolish unplanned things. (All within reason of course.) Some solicitors these days apparently go bezerk about AFO’s, can’t live without one. Especially if foreigners buy. Spanish people often just shrug, and don’t care. Different attitudes toward authority.

[Trooperman]

That's a good point. But in my own case, it was the (Spanish) buyer who insisted there be a DAFO and had a clause inserted in the contract stating that the sale was conditional upon a DAFO being in place.
Not much I could do if I wanted to make the sale, because all the time the implied threat was to reduce the price in the abscence of such a document.

[rickj]

That's a good point. But in my own case, it was the (Spanish) buyer who insisted there be a DAFO and had a clause inserted in the contract stating that the sale was conditional upon a DAFO being in place.
Not much I could do if I wanted to make the sale, because all the time the implied threat was to reduce the price in the abscence of such a document.

Understood! Can you elaborate a bit why the buyer wants an AFO? Are there bits of the property illegally built? Does his solicitor insist?

We have a house where a garage/storage space was added in the 1970’s. It was not on the catastro when we bought it, 10 years ago, but it has been added, magically. Some suggest that needs an AFO if you want to fully legalize it. You can also choose not to do that. We also have a pozo negro, not a proper septic tank. Works fine, no smells. Probably needs replacing by a septic if we’d do an AFO. So we don’t Also, this is a reformed very old property, some of the space still is “workshop” or “almacen” in the catastro, but today actually is living space. Updating that will cost, and up the IBI etc. And in return you get.. nothing! Quite the contrary, your property will be “locked”.

Unless the illegal build is recent (< 6 yrs) I wonder what AFO’s are for, apart from providing work for solicitors and architects.

[Wicksey]

I know of a few people who have sold without a DAFO. One friend did drop the price in order to sell it this way and I'd do the same. The hassle and expense of installing a septic tank when our pozo negro works just fine would be worth it. Our garden is now full of very mature large plants and it would be very difficult to install a septic tank anyway (plus everyone I know who has one has had them installed badly and they smell). We also have a small extension that wasn't on our escritura when we bought it, and we've put a conservatory on the front of the house since living here that will need regularising at some point, so the next owner can do that. I've known people advised by agents not to have the DAFO done before buying, but to wait until they've done any work they want to do first.

[El Cid]

The only reason for getting a DAFO is if your buyer insists on it. There are few benefits for the buyer. The best option for a buyer is to negotiate the price down and then carry out additions or changes without a licence and then apply for his own DAFO in due course. It’s a big earner for the lawyers, architects etc which is why it crops up so often.

Sid

[Trooperman]

Can you elaborate a bit why the buyer wants an AFO?

I'm afraid I have no answer to that question. My sale was going through when the possibility of gaining DAFOs was a fairly new response to the ongoing search for a resolution to the illegal building problem.
But, here's the thing: my buyer was a lawyer from Marbella!