Who should be on the Padron?

[Superplonk]

I should know this, but the jobsworth at the Ayuntamiento is trying to see how many times she can make me visit to sort things out.
The situation is: We've just moved to a new, rented house. The landlords live in Britain. I tried to register with my new address this morning and was told that I couldn't because the owners are still registered there. My adversary said that they needed to send the IBI receipt and a request to come off the Padron. I was just in the process of sending them a note asking them to do this, when it occurred to me that perhaps as property owners, IBI and non-resident tax payers they probably need to stay on it.
So is it on or off for them? And if they stay on the Padron, then how can I get on it?

[El Cid]

You only sign on the Padron if you have your permanent home in that municipality.

If they do not live there full time, then they have no right to be on the Padron. You live there so you must sign on the Padron.

Unfortunately, many town halls regularly abuse the law to try and get the maximum number of people registered as they get more money from central government if they do. The Ayuntamiento in Nerja is telling people that if they stay for more than 90 days they must sign on - complete rubbish.

Just tell them that they need to sign off the Padron. It won't make any difference to them.

Sid

[Superplonk]

Thankyou.

[Beachcomber]

The danger of signing on to the padrón if you are not a resident is that AEAT may use this information to determine that you are a fiscal resident with all of its tax implications.

The town halls used to insist that there is no exchange of information but I believe that this is not now the case.

[Lavanda]

Well, it's not really a 'danger' is it? If you are resident in Spain and liable to pay taxes then you should pay taxes and it's not dangerous at all.

[El Cid]

I think Beachcombers point is that any NON residents who sign on the Padron risk Hacienda getting involved.

Sid

[Miro]

Just tell them that they need to sign off the Padron. It won't make any difference to them.
Sid

Well, it might do, if they're getting a discount on their IBI & water/basura by being registered. Of course, as you rightly point out, that benefit could easily be wiped out if hacienda discover their fraud!

Assuming the OP has a valid & legal rental contract showing that they live at the address now, it seems to me that the "jobsworth" @ ayto. is being just that. Why would they need the owner to de-register? The contract (signed by the owner) is proof enough that they no longer live there surely? Furthermore, we're now being told that we have to re-register every (2 years?), so presumably if we don't, the ayto. will automatically de-register us anyway, without our consent.

[El Cid]

The Padron is essentially a municipal census. Clearly you cannot have two sets of people registered at the same address so that is why you are obliged to de-register. If you move to another town and register you will automatically be de-registered at the old location. If you just don't bother or leave the country, then of course they cannot do that.

Incidentally, whatever the town hall may say, the law says it is not necessary for EU citizens to re-apply every 2 years. Non EU foreigners have to do so.

The only reason they can ask EU citizens to re-register is if central government thinks the whole Padron records are so inaccurate that they require them to clean it up.

Sid

[Lavanda]

Thanks, Sid. I get it now.

[Miro]

Clearly you cannot have two sets of people registered at the same address so that is why you are obliged to de-register.
Sid

Don't want to get into a silly tit for tat kind of exchange here, but I'm not quite sure I agree with that; if I chose to take in a couple of lodgers (with official rental agreements etc.), why could they not then register on the padrón at my address, since it would now be their principal residence too? An example: I used to be registered at a different address to my partner, but when I sold that property and re-registered myself at the same address as my partner, there was never any suggestion she would have to de-register first.

I know it's obviously (to us who know) different circumstances, but from the OP's perspective, I still suspect that they've come up against a typical bit of bad funcionario attitude; another day, another clerk, they may get another result.

[El Cid]

Yes, it is a specific set of circumstance where the OP has obviously told the town hall that the people currently on the Padron are actually the landlords and are in the UK.

The town hall cannot do anything unless the landlords ask to be removed.

Clearly there will be cases where people do share the house, but that isn't the case here.

Yes, it probably comes down to the dysfunctionario behind the desk.

Sid

[Superplonk]

I can confirm that the person in the town hall has an attitude. My Spanish is fluent but she looks at me like she has to try really, really hard to understand when I'm speaking. I'd only just managed to reinstate myself on the padron at the old address (that took four visits, because of her). Now it looks like she wants to make me suffer at the new one. She also won't let me deregister at the old place until this is sorted out. I doubt that will take long, but for the moment I can't buy a car, or vote or use the gobierno.es cambio de domicilio page for AEAT, DGT and Seguridad Social page.