Retention return. When to get vocal?

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Devils Advocate
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Retention return. When to get vocal?

Postby Devils Advocate » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:51 am

Guys it's 2 months exactly since we completed on our house sale.

The legal firm who represented us for the sale also said they'd do the forms etc. to enable us to claw this money back.

I've heard nothing from them as of yet, I did make a quick call last month and the lady said to call the person dealing with it, which I did try to.

Still heard nothing. I have just emailed them now to continue the paper trail we had during the house sale to make sure everything is noted by date.

I know there are timescales to sort this but don't want to appear overly pushy just yet.

When is it time to really make sure this is going ahead guys, I'm just not certain of what people normally do here.

Many thanks as always
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Re: Retention return. When to get vocal?

Postby Beachcomber » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:44 pm

The purchaser has 30 days from the date of the transaction in which to pay the retention to the tax office and the seller (or his representative) has a further 90 days in which to make the CGT declaration which, in your case, is claiming a refund made on form 210. If it is made late you will be fined for late declaration even though the result is negative and you are claiming money back.

You should ask to be provided with a copy of form 210 showing that the declaration has been made but, at this stage, it is still within the time period.

The tax office then has six months from the date of correct submission of the form 210 to make the refund. If it goes over six months they have to pay interest. If there is any error in the declaration the six months clock does not start ticking until it has been resubmitted correctly.

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Re: Retention return. When to get vocal?

Postby Devils Advocate » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:03 pm

Many thanks Beachy, excellent and clear reply. We are well within time limits then so will await the email back from them to confirm they have/will submit the 210 shortly. I will also ask for a copy of the completed form/declaration too as suggested.

Just 2 x numpty points then I'm fully geared up.

1) Is the 210 form the same form as they fill in for us every year as part of the "wealth tax " scam?
2) Will we need to sign anything? We never usually do if it is indeed the same form.
Just asking so we know the sort of price we'll pay for them doing this, just trying to avoid a final Spanish leg lift.

Also, we are owed a 5k retention for the DAFO scam too surprise, surprise. We've paid the monies for the DAFO which is now being sorted and are assured their (the buyers) lawyer will return our money when the DAFO is issued, all hairy fairy and so annoying.

I'm not sure you'll have the answer to that one Beachy but wondered if anyone else here has been through it.

Do we pester our legal rep. to get it sorted ASAP. Will their lawyer release our cash as promised on the day of finalisation? What if he goes bump in the meantime hahaha?

I'll be glad to be rid of all this this crap in the comings months.

Again Beachy, your input is very much valued. Thank you.
Property owner in Andalucia since 2002. How time flies.

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Re: Retention return. When to get vocal?

Postby Beachcomber » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:20 pm

It is the same form 210 but a different section of the form which is, incidentally, for non-resident income tax not wealth tax. You do not need to sign the form, they will probably submit it with their digital certificate. The cost should be included in their fee for dealing with the sale although I seem to remember this was on the low side so they may charge extra for the CGT declaration. A stand-alone fee for the CGT declaration may be around €300.

If there was a retention for anything else it should have been written into the escritura then, if there is a problem, it is just a matter of going back to the notary. Even if it is not in the escritura then, presumably, you have a proper receipt from the lawyer holding the funds. If you paid for the AFO why was there also a retention for it?

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Re: Retention return. When to get vocal?

Postby Devils Advocate » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:44 pm

Many thanks once more for that Beach, and yes I mistakenly keep on calling it wealth tax for some reason after all these years!

I think your costing of the works seems correct then, as I reported on here the cost of them doing the conveyance was what we thought to be reasonable (for Spain) at 1500e. It was mentioned although I don't think we have it in writing that the cost of retrieving the retention would be 350e, so all seems correct there.

As for the DAFO, we almost pulled out of the sale on this issue when the retention was mentioned, we were truly on the brink of telling them to stuff it. As you know my OH is a lawyer here and she was amazed at this proposition. It was clearly mistrust by the buyers lawyer towards our lawyer and we leave the insurance there for them in case something happens untowards......whereas in a similar deal here the lawyer would take an undertaking on trust, simple as that.

We argued very hard against this, however our lawyer, their lawyer, the estate agent and a gestor said this was "totally" normal practice.

We reluctantly agreed. It is on our paperwork and it was also read out aloud in the Notary office by the Notary on the day of completion.

It's worried me you asking "why the retention" as well, just as we did. It seems it's not that "normal" then? As I say we were told it's normal practice. As you often say, I really don't trust these people as far as I can throw them Beachy.
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Re: Retention return. When to get vocal?

Postby Devils Advocate » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:49 pm

Just to say, Mrs. has just checked what she calls the transfer deeds and the final payment/return of DAFO retention to us is mentioned there.
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Re: Retention return. When to get vocal?

Postby Beachcomber » Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:29 pm

That should be fine then. If there is any problem over the return of the retention he/she/it should be able to resolve it.

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Re: Retention return. When to get vocal?

Postby Miro » Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:35 pm

Since the 30 day deadline for the buyer to submit the retention to Hacienda has passed, I would politely ask my representative to forward me a copy of the buyer's form 211 duly rubber stamped by Hacienda with the date on which it was actually received by them - just for my records, you know?! :wink: If they don't have it, then they should be demanding it from the buyer's representative by now.
Once you have a copy of that, you will know when the clock started ticking for your 210 to be submitted, and therefore know when to start sending polite reminders.
And once that's been done, you'll know when the six month clock starts ticking for them to send your refund.
And once that's passed, you'll start wondering how much interest you're going to get off them.

And one day....you'll be able to look back on all this and smile :)
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

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Re: Retention return. When to get vocal?

Postby Devils Advocate » Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:53 pm

Many thanks Guys, Beachy, I will update the thread on how this all goes and thanks once more for your assistance as always.

Miro, cracking tip that. First thing tomorrow I'll be emailing and phoning asking this exact question re. this 211. A hell of a shout that.

They have to respond to that surely? I've had no response from todays question so far.

Oh, and we nearly called you on Sunday as we were going to go to the "coast" yesterday........then we saw the weather forecast, we stayed put lol
Property owner in Andalucia since 2002. How time flies.

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Re: Retention return. When to get vocal?

Postby Devils Advocate » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:27 pm

Well Spain is going to bite us here for its last time I reckon. Just had an email from our lawyers and it seems the old fashioned and downright underhand way our purchase was handled pre. Andalucia.com days is going to see our retention whittled down to nothing or very little indeed. Oh that's the way it's done here they told us, at least forum members who've bought in the last 15 years and have visited here will not get bitten by these philistines.

Contact has gone all quiet again since I've told them the facts, and no it wasn't under declaring that has caused this although we did underdeclare as par for the course. I will relay more details when I've calmed down lol
Property owner in Andalucia since 2002. How time flies.

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Re: Retention return. When to get vocal?

Postby Beachcomber » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:13 pm

I just thought I would mention that a retention which we applied for on behalf of someone at the end of November last year (2019) has just been paid back into his bank account.

Do not believe the stories that it takes a year to eighteen months or never gets repaid at all. If the paperwork is done correctly it will be refunded well within the six month time limit, usually around four months but in this case just two months.

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Re: Retention return. When to get vocal?

Postby Miro » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:23 pm

Why not believe the less satisfactory stories as well? Our paperwork was all correct, but it took just shy of a year to receive our refund (plus interest).
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

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Re: Retention return. When to get vocal?

Postby Devils Advocate » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:21 pm

Leave it out guys.....I hate that word retention now :mrgreen:
Property owner in Andalucia since 2002. How time flies.


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