Collapse of democracy in Spain?

[Jool]

Is it really this serious?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... uptcy.html

[julian]

is that a serious question?

[Jool]

Re collapse of effective democracy why not, there are planned general strikes for Spain and we are in the mire big time, lots of negative info, I did not write the article and wondered what others think, either way Spain is in for a very very tough time and the euro may well be a casualty if others are to be believed..

[julian]

ok, as you ask what others think, I don´t think spain will lose democracy.

[pete_l]

No can't be taken seriously. It's tone is so xenophobic and superior it's not even ridiculous.

[Jool]

Yes it did not really consider our spanish King did it as he is very influential on everyone........but it shows that the view of Spain has changed somewhat and we are being allied to Greece, same as Portugal yet I read quite a lot of positive press about Portugal.......

I think the euro will be under pressure though..

[julian]

all it shows is the daily mail´s continual inaccurate attacks on spain and anything spanish.
while some people will take them seriously they will continue to publish such articles.

[Beachcomber]

Don't shoot the messenger. The Daily Mail is not the only source of this story:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/artic ... topstories

Anyway, Spain doesn't have a democracy. It has an elected dictatorship.

[markwilding]

This article is a joke. The Daily Mail surpasses itself with this stupidity.
Beach maybe you can tell me what an elected dictatorship is supposed to be. Any elected government could be called that with an absolute majority,Which Spain doesn't have at the moment anyway . The government rely on the local parties, of which there are many in Spain, to govern.
You only have to go back to the bombings in Madrid and the lies told by the PP party in their desparate attempt to get back into power regarding the culprits of bombing to see that democracy is alive and kicking in Spain.
The PP party was also the last group to have an absolute majority in Spain almost seven years ago.

[katy]

I have read a lot about the run-up to the Madrid bombings and I still think there was a link between ETA and the Islamic terrorists. The PP weren't all wrong.

[markwilding]

That can only be your opinion Katy there's no proof of it. From the word go the analysts in Britain were saying it wastn't ETA's Style

[frank]

This article is a joke. The Daily Mail surpasses itself with this stupidity.

Agree with Beach, the Mail along with others, is merely quoting the Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso. What's so stupid about that, it's not something the Mail has suddenly thought up.

[Jool]

Well I am glad I am not alone, in amongst some auspicious support here, instead of being shouted down, Spain is seriously in trouble and Zapatero does not have the power or clout to carry us through it with any real authority as he is too dependent on minority support plus he does not think things through properly, eg the rise in IVA affecting property bought from constructors (those with the glut) whilst property transmission tax stays at 7%.

I believe the EU over Spain and the hispanophiles on here

[Beachcomber]

Unfortunately the Hispanophiles of which I used to be one (and still am in some ways) have the same 'head in the sand' attitude as the government which has resulted in the the virtual bankruptcy of the country.

The 'This is Money' web site is actually published by the Daily Mail but even so, as Frank says, they are merely reporting comments by José Manuel Barroso but instead of attacking him or the EU for what it has said its detractors prefer to attack the Daily Mail for reporting it in the same way as they criticise it for daring to report the plight of disenfranchised foreign property owners in Spain.

As I said, don't shoot the messenger.

[markwilding]

What........................
We are talking about revolution here.
You don't have to like Spain to say it's far from the reality
The Daily Mail have an agenda here.They hate the idea of the EU. I bet the experts are 1 million to one not agreeing with this view.But I wouldn't expect them to report the sensible opposition to this opinion because it doesn't follow their line.
I wouldn't expect them to take it seriously if the president of Latvia said the moonmen are coming. I would expect them to take a sensible approach and say that the man's bonkers

So the natives are restless because of a drop in salary.Wouldn't you be? But are they going to go on to the streets to fight a war? Because that's what we are talking about.

[Beachcomber]

Agenda, what agenda? To report the comments of the President of the European Commission? Or are you claiming that he didn't say it and that the Daily Mail is making it all up?

The danger does not lie in the Spanish workers demonstrating on the streets but the apparent lack of ability or will of the government to do anything about the situation. The military and extreme right wing, already seething at the current government's attempt to rewrite history, are only being held in check by the iron will of the king as was the case in 1981. Nothing much has really changed since then.

I would hardly put Valdis Zatlers in the same league as José Manuel Barroso.

[Jim Allen]

Well .Well How a newspaper report can stir things up
Last week we had one that said the Euro would be dead in 5 Days.
Jools you are the messenger and hopefully you don’t consider this report to be fact.
The one thing that is fact however that there are going to be very difficult times ahead so perhaps its best to not get to excited on the day to day media reports.

Jim Allen

[Jool]

Jim, it was not me who said it but José Manuel Barroso.

I have long thought democracy was fragile in Spain........but I think it is the euro more likely to suffer in the near future, at least as long as we still have the monarchy anyway..

[Jim Allen]

As I said Jools .You were only the messenger.
I feel you are correct in what you have just posted however its just the media that seem to go the extra mile to get a story

Jim Allen

[pete_l]

... maybe you can tell me what an elected dictatorship is supposed to be. Any elected government could be called that with an absolute majority

The basic idea is that what we call "democracy" is really just a dictatorship of the majority. The elected government only does what the largest number of voters wanted - the wants, needs and hopes of everyone else are ignored.
The soviets had a joke about democracy:
3 men had a bottle of vodka each. In the spirit of communism, they decided to drink one bottle, then the second and then the third. One of the men offered his bottle, which the three of them shared. After it was finished, the two who still had their unopened bottles had a vote and decided that in future each man should drink his own vodka. And that, comrade, is how democracy works!